REPLY to Rochana Prabhu

This is a REPLY to Rochana Prabhu on his COMPLETE MISUNDERSTANDING of BOTH Guru AND Ritvik Issue: Part 1

By: 

Mahesh Raja (UK)

July 9, 1977. Letter to: All G.B.C., All Temple Presidents

The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace’s  “Initiated Disciples” book. 

 

Amar Puri Prabhu wrote to Rochana Prabhu and Rochana Prabhu Replies: 

 

“So who gave you permission, Amar Puri, to decide that the system will be changed upon his departure so that names get sent to someone else? Or not sent? Or whatever?” — Rochana

 

Mahesh: Srila Prabhupada had ALREADY given instruction of HOW he wanted the prospective disciples ACCEPTED. The system was ALREADY in place. Besides this, use of LITTLE COMMON-SENSE is necessary. WHAT sort of person can REPRESENT Srila Prabhupada. If REPRESENTATIVE OF ACHARYA falls down he CAN be REPLACED: 

 

Note: OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE is the Ritvik Representative as per July 9th 1977 Order 

 

Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse

 

Similarly, a disciple’s qualifications must be observed by the spiritual master before he is accepted as a disciple. IN OUR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS MOVEMENT, THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT ONE MUST BE PREPARED TO GIVE UP THE FOUR PILLARS OF SINFUL LIFE - ILLICIT SEX, MEAT-EATING, INTOXICATION AND GAMBLING. IN WESTERN COUNTRIES ESPECIALLY, WE FIRST OBSERVE WHETHER A POTENTIAL DISCIPLE IS PREPARED TO FOLLOW THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES. THEN HE IS GIVEN THE NAME OF A VAISHNAVA SERVANT AND INITIATED TO CHANT THE HARE KRISHNA MAHA-MANTRA, AT LEAST SIXTEEN ROUNDS DAILY. In this way the disciple renders devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR. HE IS THEN RECOMMENDED FOR A SECOND INITIATION, DURING WHICH A SACRED THREAD IS OFFERED AND THE DISCIPLE IS ACCEPTED AS A BONA FIDE BRAHMANA.

 

Conversations, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan

 

Tamala Krishna: Of course, IF SOMEONE HAS A FALLDOWN, just like in the past some GBC men have fallen down…

 

Prabhupada: HE SHOULD BE REPLACED.

 

Tamala Krishna: Then he should be replaced. But that’s a serious fall down, not some minor discrepancy.

 

Prabhupada: THEY MUST BE ALL IDEAL ACHARYA-LIKE. IN THE BEGINNING WE HAVE DONE FOR WORKING. Now we should be very cautious. ANYONE WHO IS DEVIATING, HE CAN BE REPLACED. One can replace a Representative of Acharya if he deviates BUT one can NOT replace DIKSHA Guru because he MUST be a Maha bhagavata OTHERWISE he is NOT DIKSHA GURU. It is 3rd offense in chanting to accept any other than a Maha bhagavata:

 

Nectar of Devotion 8 Offenses to Be Avoided

 

The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) TO DISOBEY THE ORDERS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER.

 

Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse

 

MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho

brahmano vai gurur nrnam

sarvesam eva lokanam

asau pujyo yatha harih

maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi

sarva-yajnesu diksitah

sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca

na guruh syad a vaisnavah

 

((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY SUCH A PERSON IS ELIGIBLE TO OCCUPY THE POST OF A GURU.))

 

Rochana Dasa in his “Church of Ritvik”:

 

Nectar of Instruction Text 5

 

“One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaishnava or a Vaishnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.” 

 

Nectar of Instruction, Text 5 

 

If one reads the above Purport, which contains the statement used by the HKS to support their position, it is clear that Srila Prabhupada is suggesting that a guru should ideally be an uttama-adhikari. We have to keep in mind, however, the fact that Srila Prabhupada is Himself an uttama-adhikari and a Sampradaya Acharya. At the time Nectar of Instruction was published, the reader had a choice to take initiation directly from Srila Prabhupada. But Srila Prabhupada also clearly says in this quote that there are gurus in all three categories: kanistha, madhyama, and uttama-adhikari. He does not state that he is referring here to diksha gurus rather than siksa gurus. He does state that the problem with having a guru that is not uttama-adhikari is that the initiated can’t advance beyond the level of their guru’s realization. Consequently, he cautions that the disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as their guru. He does not say, however, that gurus in the other two categories are bogus, or are not part of the sampradaya, or are just pretending to be gurus but are actually not gurus. Clearly, the Hare Krishna Society would like you believe that he is saying these things. While it is absolutely true that there is no Sampradaya Acharya who has ever fallen down, and that certain things disqualify a diksha guru, they cannot make the case that Srila Prabhupada has instructed that one must never accept a kanistha or madhyama as diksha guru. ”

 

Mahesh: We will just take a segment of his ERRONEOUS understanding of the DIKSHA Guru AND PROVE HIM COMPELETELY WRONG THAT KANISTHA AND MADHYAMA ARE **NOT** DIKSHA GURU as he SPECULATES:

 

Rochana Dasa: “While it is absolutely true that there is no Sampradaya Acharya who has ever fallen down, and that certain things disqualify a diksha guru, they cannot make the case that Srila Prabhupada has instructed that one must never accept a kanistha or madhyama as diksha guru. ” 

 

Mahesh:

Nectar of Instruction 5

 

“One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaishnava or a Vaishnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.” 

 

Some devotees are taking this above quote to mean that Kanistha can give Diksha. This is NOT what Srila Prabhupada says. There is NO mention of Diksha by kanistha. What it exactly says is about accepting DISCIPLES. Then suggests very strongly 2 points:

 

1) ”..they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.” 

 

2) “One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. 

 

The question is can a Kanistha give DIKSA from this quote? The answer is NO!

 

So how can we establish that Kanistha does NOT give diksha? Kanistha is a QUALIFIED Brahmana. But even such a QUALIFIED Brahmana is in MATERIAL CONTAMINATION. And because he has MATERIAL CONTAMINATION he does NOT have Transcendental Knowledge. What you do NOT have you can NOT give. And it is Transcendental Knowledge that frees one from ALL MATERIAL CONTAMINATION.

 

Definition of Diksha:

 

Madhya 15.108 The Lord Accepts Prasada at the House of Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya

 

Srila Jiva Gosvami explains diksha in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283):

 

divyam jnanam yato dadyat

kuryat papasya sanksayam

tasmad dikseti sa prokta

desikais tattva-kovidaih

 

“Diksha is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksha.”