Srila Prabhupada WILL accept new disciples

Anyone who follows the directions of Srila Prabhupada (as in his order of July 9th),
can now and into the future be accepted by Srila Prabhupada himself, as one of his disciples.

In his recent article on the Sampradaya Sun, titled “Automatic?,” Mahavidya Prabhu argues that the supporters of Srila Prabhupada’s rtvik order are denying him his right to reject aspiring disciples. I’ve appreciated Mahavidya’s writing on many occasions,but that accusation is wrong.

There is no need for Srila Prabhupada to accept (or reject) individual disciples now, because historical record shows that he chose to distance himself from that role and delegate it to rtviks instead. This can be shown clearly in four events in 1977:

1. April 22, Tamal Krsna Gosvami tells Srila Prabhupada that he does not think any of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples are qualified at the level of guru, and Srila Prabupada agrees, telling TKG that he is waiting for someone to become qualified. This contradicts any earlier evidence someone may put forward saying that he had authorized gurus. As of April 22, 1977, he had not.

Conspicuously absent is any mention by Srila Prabhupada of how he supposedly authorized everyone to be initiating guru with a private letter to Tusta Krsna swami several years earlier.

2. On May 28, Satsvarupa das Gosvami formally asked Srila Prabhupada how initiations were to continue after his disappearance, and he immediately replied, “Officiating acarya… Rtvik, yes.” As if unsatisfied with this, his disciples brought the conversation around to discussion of gurus, and Srila Prabhupada emphasized it would be upon his order, an order that apparently was never given.

3. Srila Prabhupada signed a document dated July 9, 1977, indicating that the rtviks listed therein were to act on his behalf in accepting disciples, which would then be Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. (TKG mentioned on at Topanga Canyon on Dec. 3, 1980, that Srila Prabhupada told him more rtviks could be added.) With this document, Srila Prabhupada materiallyremoved himself from the decision-making process in accepting disciples, having already clearly established his standard of 16 rounds, 4 regs, etc. Nowhere in this document is there any termination clause or any other contradiction of Srila Prabhupada’s prior expressed choice to employ the rtvik method for accepting disciples in ISKCON after his disappearance.

4. That Srila Prabhupada dismissed himself from the decision of accepting disciples was confirmed on October 18, when the desire of one man to become his disciple was presented to Srila Prabhupada, and Srila Prabhupada referred five times to the “deputies” he had made to go to instead. Reading the conversation gives me the impression that he was a little annoyed at being bothered to verbally accept a disciple when he had already delegated that role.

Leaving aside other supporting evidence for the sake of time and space, these four events clearly illustrate the relevant decision that Srila Prabhupada actually made, to continue accepting disciples after his disappearance via the rtvik method he instituted. Therefore it is far better to focus on honoring Srila Prabhupada’s expressed order rather than worrying that someone might wrongly accept a disciple on his behalf and force Srila Prabhupada to save another soul and deliver another devotee to Krishna against his will. Yeah, it sounds ridiculous. Have we forgotten Srila Prabhupada’s mercy?

The way Mahavidya presented it, one unaware might think Srila Prabhupada was big on rejecting his aspiring disciples. We know he accepted several thousand, including some who were just passing through and many whom he never met. How many did he reject? Mahavidya acts as if he knows of one but yet calls him a disciple, so that suggests Srila Prabhupada accepted him too. I would like to know what, if any, evidence anyone has to suggest that Srila Prabhupada would reject an aspiring disciple who would meet the criteria for initiation that he established for ISKCON. In the absence of such evidence, I find it extremely mislead for anyone to stand in the way of aspiring disciples wanting to take shelter at Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet.

Some, including Mahavidya Prabhu recently if I recall correctly, have presented an argument they seem to find very clever, that if we can be initiated as Srila Prabhupada’s disciples even now, then that means we could just as well be initiated as disciples of any past acarya. They say, devoid of logic, that the rtvik system is invalid because I could become the godbrother of Krishna’s spiritual master, for example. This again ignores the fact that Srila Prabhupada created a worldwide institution and a rtvik method within that institution for accepting disciples in his absence, and he said this was the method to be used after his disappearance. The previous acaryas came in a different time, place, and circumstance, and did not do that. History shows that Srila Prabhupada did.

Others present the idea that somehow a guru cannot accept disciples after his disappearance. I’m not sure whether they think this is a limitation on Krishna’s abilities, on the guru’s, or both.

Considering that an ordinary rich person can give his material wealth after his disappearance to someone he has never met but who meets certain qualifications, I find it impossible to believe that on the spiritual platform a guru cannot give his spiritual wealth in an equivalent situation. Materially, it happens every day. Someone has loads of money and establishes a foundation, with funding, trustees, criteria for awards, etc., and money is given as designated, even after the founder’s death. Srila Prabhupada’s establishment of the rtvik system in ISKCON during his manifest pastimes provides a similar infrastructure, making that system possible even now.

Given that Srila Prabhupada provided the means for accepting disciples after his disappearance, directly said to utilize the rtvik method after his disappearance, widely promulgated a written order following that, referred to the same in laterconversations and letters, and never subsequently contradicting this order… if the “walks like a duck, quacks like a duck” logic is good for anything, then rtvik system is undoubtedly what Srila Prabhupada wanted to do.

Therefore one should accept the decisions Srila Prabhupada made rather than falsely accusing others of stealing from Srila Prabhupada a decision that he formally delegated. Hare Krishna

——

COMMENT BY COREY

One question for Krsna dasa: Since, according to you, we can’t have Srila Prabhupada as our guru, then WHO are we supposed to take shelter of? Who is your guru, Krsna dasa?

Second question: Where did Srila Prabhupada ever authorize or order anyone to become diksa gurus? He only authorize them to become ritviks. So, unless you can present evidence to the contrary, I will stick with the system of initiation that Srila Prabhupada DID IN FACT establish, the ritvik system.

Good luck finding such evidence, because according to Tamal Krishna, it does not exist:

“You cannot show me anything on tape or in writing where Prabhupada says: “I appoint these eleven as gurus.” It does not exist because he never appointed any gurus. This is a myth.” – (Tamal Krishna Goswami, December 3, 1980)

-
Four objections to the ritvik system that has been put
forth in this article. Here are some answers to such objections.

BY COREY

FIRST OBJECTION: supporters of Srila Prabhupada’s rtvik order are denying him his right to reject aspiring disciples.

ANSWER: On July 7th, when setting up the ritvik system, Srila Prabhupada states that the ritviks could accept devotees as his disciples without consulting him. Thus, Srila Prabhupada was not involved in the process of screening, or approving new disciples. The ritviks had full authority and discretion. Srila Prabhupada’s physical involvement was not required.

Srila Prabhupada: So without waiting for me, wherever you consider it is right. That will depend on discretion.
Tamal Krishna: On discretion.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes.
(Srila Prabhupada Room conversation, 7/7/77, Vrindavan)

Furthermore, the names given by the ritviks would be entered by Tamal Krishna Goswami into the “Initiated disciples” book. Thus, externally at least, Srila Prabhupada would not even have been aware of the disciple’s existence. Consequently, the process now would be the same as it was then, since the ritvik has full power of attorney.

SECOND OBJECTION: that if we can be initiated as Srila Prabhupada’s disciples even now, then that means we could just as well be initiated as disciples of any past acarya.

ANSWER: Two things prevent this from being a bona fide option:

1. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, and other previous acaryas, did not authorise a ritvik system to run “henceforward”.

2. We must approach the current link:

“…in order to receive the real message of Srimad-Bhagavatam one should approach the current link, or spiritual master, in the chain of disciplic succession.” (S.B. 2.9.7, purport)
It is self-evident that Srila Prabhupada is the sampradaya acarya who succeeded Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. Srila Prabhupada is therefore our current link, and is thus the correct person to approach for initiation.

THIRD OBJECTION: Others present the idea that somehow a guru cannot accept disciples after his disappearance.

ANSWER: There is nothing in the July 9th Final Order letter that says the instruction for ritviks was only meant for whilst Srila Prabhupada was physically present. In fact, the only information given supports the continuation of the ritvik system after Srila Prabhupada’s departure. It is significant to note that within the July 9th letter it is stated three times that those initiated would become Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. The GBC in presenting evidence for the current guru system have argued vigorously that Srila Prabhupada had already made it clear that, as far as he was concerned, it was an inviolable law that no one could initiate in his presence. Thus the necessity to state Srila Prabhupada’s ownership of future disciples must indicate that the instruction was intended to operate during a time period when the ownership could even have been an issue, namely after his departure.

For some years Srila Prabhupada had been using representatives to chant on beads, perform the fire yajna, give gayatri mantra etc. No one had ever questioned whom such new initiates belonged to. Right at the beginning of the July 9th letter it is emphatically stated that those appointed are “representatives” of Srila Prabhupada. The only innovation this letter contained then was the formalisation of the role of the representatives; hardly something which could be confused with a direct order for them to become fully-fledged diksa gurus. Srila Prabhupada’s emphasis on disciple ownership would therefore have been completely redundant were the system to operate only in his presence, especially since as long as he was present he could personally ensure that no one claimed false ownership of the disciples. As mentioned above, this point is hammered home three times in a letter which itself was quite short and to the point:

“So as soon as one thing is three times stressed, that means final.” (Srila Prabhupada Bg. Lecture, 27/11/68, Los Angeles)

The July 9th letter states that the names of newly initiated disciples were to be sent “to Srila Prabhupada” – Could this indicate that the system was only to run while Srila Prabhupada was physically present? Some devotees have argued that since we can no longer send these names to Srila Prabhupada, the ritvik system must therefore be invalid.

The first point to note is the stated purpose behind the names being sent to Srila Prabhupada, ie., so they could be included in his “Initiated Disciples” book. We know from the July 7th conversation (please see Appendices) that Srila Prabhupada had nothing to do with entering the new names into this book, it was done by his secretary. Further evidence that the names should be sent for inclusion in the book, and NOT specifically to Srila Prabhupada is given in the letter written to Hamsadutta, the very next day, where Tamala Krishna Goswami explains his new ritvik duties to him:

“…you should send their names to be included in Srila Prabhupada’s ‘Initiated Disciples’ book.” (Letter to Hamsadutta from Tamala Krishna Goswami, 10/7/77)

Their is no mention made here of needing to send the names to Srila Prabhupada. This procedure could easily have continued after Srila Prabhupada’s physical departure. Nowhere in the final order does it state that if the “Initiated Disciples” book becomes physically separated from Srila Prabhupada all initiations must be suspended.

The next point is that the procedure of sending the names of newly initiated disciples to Srila Prabhupada in any case relates to a post-initiation activity. The names could only be sent after the disciples had already been initiated. Thus an instruction concerning what is to be done after initiation cannot be used to amend or in any way interrupt pre-initiation, or indeed initiation procedures (the ritvik’s role being already fulfilled well before the actual initiation ceremony takes place). Whether or not names can be sent to Srila Prabhupada has no bearing on the system for initiation, since at the point where new names are ready to be sent, the initiation has already occurred.

The last point is that if sending the names to Srila Prabhupada were a vital part of the ceremony, then even before Srila Prabhupada’s departure, the system would have been invalid, or at least run the constant risk of being so. It was generally understood that Srila Prabhupada was ready to leave at any time, thus the danger of not having anywhere to send the names was present from day one of the order being issued. In other words, taking the possible scenario that Srila Prabhupada leaves the planet the day after a disciple has been initiated through the ritvik system, according to the above proposition, the disciple would not actually have been initiated simply because of the speed by which mail is delivered. We find no mention in Srila Prabhupada’s books that the transcendental process of diksa, which may take many lifetimes to complete, can be obstructed by the vicissitudes of the postal service. Certainly there would be nothing preventing the names of new initiates being entered into His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book even now. This book could then be offered to Srila Prabhupada at a fitting time.

FOURTH OBJECTION: It is absolutely clear that Srila Prabhupada wanted the disciplic succession to continue and not terminate with him.

ANSWER: The disciplic succession, or guru parampara, is eternal; there is no question of it stopping. According to Srila Prabhupada, the Sankirtan Movement, (and hence ISKCON), will only exist for the next 9,500 years. Compared with eternity 9,500 years is nothing, a mere blip in cosmic time. This would appear to be the time period during which Srila Prabhupada shall remain the “current link” within ISKCON, unless he or Krishna countermands the July 9th order, or some external circumstance renders the order impossible to follow (such as total thermo-nuclear annihilation).

Previous acaryas have remained current for long periods of time, thousands (Srila Vyasadeva) or even millions of years (see quote below). We see no reason why the duration of Srila Prabhupada’s reign as “current link”, even if it extends right till the end of the Sankirtan Movement, should pose any particular problem.

“Regarding Parampara System: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps [...] we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system – namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamperfrom understanding the parampara system. We have to pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him [...] We have to pick up from the authority of the acarya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.” (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dayananda, 12/4/68)

Gaps in the Disciplic Succession: Regarding your third question—”Why are there apparent time‐gaps in the line of disciplic succession as listed in the Bhagavad‐gita? Is Arjuna an instructor Spiritual Master and not an initiator Spiritual Master and therefore not listed?” The time gap mentioned by you is inevitable, because the disciplic succession sometimes becomes disconnected, as we find from the Bhagavad‐gita. This is the influence of material energy, and to link it up again, it takes some time. That some time may appear to our calculation a big gap, but in relation with the eternal time, it is not even as instant. So this big gap or small gap of time is relative. Just like our 24 hours and Brahma’s 24 hours, there is much difference. Our 24 hours is not even a fraction of his second….” (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Rupanuga Hawaii 14 March, 1969)

Disciplic Succession does not always mean that one has to be initiated officially
Regarding the disciplic succession coming from Arjuna, disciplic succession does not always mean that one has to be initiated officially. Disciplic succession means to accept the disciplic conclusion. Arjuna was a disciple of Krishna and Brahma was also a disciple of Krishna. Thus there is no disagreement between the conclusions of Brahma and Arjuna. Vyasadeva is in the disciplic succession of Brahma. The teachings to Arjuna was recorded by Vyasadeva verbatim. So according to the axiomatic truth, things equal to one another are equal to each other. We are not exactly directly from Vyasadeva, but our Gurudeva is a representative of Vyasadeva. Because Vyasadeva and Arjuna are of equal status, being students of Krishna, therefore we are in the disciplic succession of Arjuna. Things equal to the same thing are equal to one another. (Srila Prabhupada letter to Dinesh Tittenhurst 31 October, 1969)

The July 9th order is significant since it means thatSrila Prabhupada shall be the Prominent Acarya, at least for members of ISKCON, for as long as the Society exists. Only the direct intervention of Srila Prabhupada or Krishna can revoke the final order (such intervention needing to be at least as clear and unequivocal as a signed directive sent to the entire Society). Thus until some counter-instruction is given, the science of devotional service shall continue to be transmitted directly by Srila Prabhupada to successive generations of his disciples. Since this is a common phenomenon in our disciplic succession, there is no cause for alarm. The succession can only be considered “ended” if this science of devotional service is lost. On such occasions, Lord Krishna Himself usually descends to re-establish the principles of religion. As long as Srila Prabhupada’s books are in circulation, this “science” shall remain vigorously intact, and perfectly accessible.

One can associate with Krsna and Srila Prabhupada in any circumstance

Revati-nandana: ........ Sometimes this question comes up, with the devotees especially, that it says the devotee makes advancement when the spiritual master is pleased. Right? So sometimes the spiritual master is far, far away. He may be in Los Angeles. Somebody is coming to Hamburg temple. He thinks, “How will the spiritual master be pleased?” 
Srila Prabhupada: Just follow his order. Spiritual master is along with you by his words. Just like my spiritual master is not physically present, but I am associating with him by his words. 
Revati-nandana: And Krsna knows that; therefore we make advancement. He is sitting in our heart. He knows what we’re doing. So He sees, “He’s serving My pure devotee,” immediately there is advancement. 
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Spiritual master..., Krsna is not limited. It is not material. You can associate with Krsna and the spiritual master in any circumstance, provided you want two things. Just like we can associate with Krsna immediately if we take Bhagavad-gita as it is. He is not different from Bhagavad-gita. Nama-rupe kali-kale krsna-avatara. Krsna is incarnated in His name in this age. You associate with Krsna’s name, immediately associate with Krsna. 
Dhananjaya: And his devotees. 
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. [break]  SB 1.1.2 8/18/71 


SRILA PRABHUPADA IS THE SPIRITUAL MASTER NOT A MATERIAL MASTER.HE IS NOT BOUND BY TIME, PLACE AND CIRCUMSTANCES AND HIS " PHYSICAL" ABSENCE .

Srila Prabhupada is eternally living

Compiled by Bhakta Corey (Texas, USA)

A common argument against following the ritvik initiation system that was established and authorized directly by Srila Prabhupada is the false idea that “you need a living guru”. Let us examine this argument in detail.

"Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life. That will make our spiritual life successful.”

- Srila Prabhupada letter to Brahmananda and other students, January 1, 1967

Here, Srila Prabhupada is saying that the physical presence of the spiritual master is not important. Rather, the principle and guiding point of spiritual life is to HEAR from the spiritual master. Another important point is, many of Srila Prabhupada’s pre-1977 disciples never even met him physically. That is, they received initiation through the ritvik initiation system that Srila Prabhupada set up. The real essence of spiritual life is to hear from Srila Prabhupada, through reading his transcendental books and hearing his audio lectures.

"So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association."

- Srila Prabhupada lecture, Srimad Bhagavatam, August 18, 1968

Real association means hearing the teachings of the spiritual master, not physically associating with him. Srila Prabhupada speaks about some of his god brothers, who had extensive physical association with Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, but have become USELESS due to their NOT following the orders of their spiritual master:

"So far as personal association with Guru is concerned, I was only with Guru Maharaj 4 or 5 times, but I have never left his association, not even for a moment. Because I am following his instruction, I have never felt any separation. There are some of my God brothers here in India, who had constant personal association with Guru Maharaja, but who are neglecting his orders. This is just like the bug who is sitting on the lap of the king. He may be very puffed up by his position but all he can succeed in doing is biting the king. Personal association is not so important as association through serving."

- Srila Prabhupada letter to Satyadhana, February 20, 1972

And in ISKCON’s own past history, we can see that the same thing happened. Many senior disciples of Srila Prabhupada had extensive personal association with him, but due to their offenses and their disobedience of Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, ESPECIALLY the instruction to act as a ritvik and initiate others on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, they all fell down and left Krishna Consciousness. This was simply due to their tremendous offenses against Srila Prabhupada. The above quote from Srila Prabhupada is very telling in understanding ISKCON’s own past history and how many of the senior disciples have fallen down.

One may be physically associated with their spiritual master, but may be dwelling on all types of nonsense thoughts and desires for sense gratification, the worst of which is the desire to become a guru yourself. And one may be very physically far away from the spiritual master, but if one is constantly meditating within his heart on the instructions and desires of their spiritual master, then they are constantly in association with the spiritual master. Therefore, physical presence is not very important in spiritual life.

"I went to your country for spreading this information of Krishna Consciousness and you are helping me in my mission, although I am not physically present there but spiritually I am always with you."

- Srila Prabhupada letter to Nandarani, Krishna Devi and Subala, October 3, 1967

If we are trying our best to spread the movement started by Srila Prabhupada, then he will always be with us. The relationship with Srila Prabhupada is one of the heart. The gopis of Vrindavan showed this perfectly. Krishna was physically separate from them, but they could think of nothing except Krishna, and thus they were factually constantly associating with Krishna. The state of consciousness one is in is far more important than the physical location one may be in.

"Therefore we should take advantage of the vani, not the physical presence."

- Srila Prabhupada letter to Suchi Devi Dasi, November 4, 1975

The real blessings of Srila Prabhupada can be obtained by hearing his teachings, reading his books, hearing his audio lectures, and so on. There were many people who may have had Srila Prabhupada’s physical association, but the real connection with Srila Prabhupada comes when one hears his teachings by reading his books and hearing his audio lectures. To judge one’s relationship with Srila Prabhupada on the basis of how much or how little physical association they may have had with him is a material conception. A spiritual conception of the relationship with Srila Prabhupada is judged by how deeply one has imbibed his teachings within one’s heart.

"I am always with you. Never mind if I am physically absent."

- Srila Prabhupada letter to Jayananda, September 16, 1969

This is a real loving relationship. It is not dependent on physical association. If one has achieved deep love for Krishna, then he will never be separate from Him. In this controversial issue of physical association, I believe the gopis of Vrindavan have taught us the best example. They were the dearest devotees of Krishna, and even though Krishna apparently left them for so many years, they never for a moment stopped thinking of Krishna. That is real association, and that is a real relationship

Srila Prabhupada gave Diksa-mantra through Tape

Srila Prabhupada had disciples hear the TAPE of him giving Gayatri Mantra at brahmana initiation. 

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Gaura Hari, September 24, 1971:

"At your recommendation I have gladly consented to accept Guy as my duly initiated disciple. His letter and beads are enclosed herewith. Also enclosed are three sacred threads duly chanted by me as well as four papers with Gayatri mantra for the four devotees you have recommended for second initiation. You should secure the tape of me reciting Gayatri mantra from Makhanlal in Seattle. Let each devotee hear the tape privately, one at a time, and through the right ear. They should have the paper in front of them and hear and repeat each word. Beforehand you can show them how to count on the fingers, and beforehand hold a fire yajna and get the threads on the boys' bodies."

3) Srila Prabhupada had the WIFE of one disciple read Gayatri mantra to a devotee. 

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Vaikunthanatha, Sardia, April 4, 1971:

"Even though you have had no gayatri mantra, still you are more than brahmana. I am enclosing herewith your sacred thread, duly chanted on by me. Gayatri mantra is as follows:

[TAKEN OUT]

Ask your wife to chant this mantra and you hear it and if possible hold a fire ceremony as you have seen during your marriage and get this sacred thread on your body. Saradia, or any twice-initiated devotee, may perform the ceremony.

-----------------------

THE GURU HAS TO BE PHYSICALLY PRESENT IS A MYTH.

Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound
received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life.
That will make our spiritual life successful.

(SP Letter to Brahmananda and other students, 19/1/67)

So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical
presence. That is real association.
(SP Lectures SB, 68/08/18)

The vibrational conception is eternal.(SP in Elevation to Krishna Consciousness,(BBT 1973), Page 57)

I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not
physically present.(SP Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 14/7/77)

I am always with you. Never mind if I am physically absent.
(SP Letter to Jayananda, 16/9/67)

So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be
accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we
have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living.
(SP General lectures, 69/01/13)

and for more quotes :

http://prabhupadanugas.blogspot.com/2011/11/shrila-prabhupadas-quotes-on-vani-and.html

Guru Tattva - The Big Picture

 

By: 

Damaghosa Dasa, Seattle, USA

1) Just like Krsna can be present simultaneously in millions of places, similarly the spiritual master also can be present wherever the disciple wants. A spiritual master is the principle, not the body. Just like a television can be seen in thousands of places by the principle or relay monitoring.(letter may 28 1968)

So in this statement it is very clear that Srila Prabhupada is telling us in this "big picture quote" that  the bona fide guru is NOT that physical body, but thru some physical body or NO body he can act just like TV is seen in thousands of places. So this one quote alone destroys the "living guru" nonsense idea.You  cannot show me one quote anywhere where he says you need a physically living diksa guru. But here, he clearly tells us that the guru is NOT the body but a principle. Not only does the bona fide guru not need a physical body to deliver Krsna, but he can appear wherever the disciple wants or needs him to. The guru is the principle not the body clearly is telling us that the Divine spirit of God can be experienced thru the disciplic sucession, whether in a physical body or no physical body. Otherwise how could so many thousands of disciples who never saw Prabhupada receive inspiration on a daily basis? And this inspiration goes on even after he physically has left our mortal material vision thru divine sound. And how could these thousands also receive diksa without the presence of a physical body in front of them and the sacred fire? Again, "spiritual master is not the body, but the principle." And that "principle" is what is living not the body.

2)  a."The potency of transcendental sound is never minimized because the vibrator is absent.(SB 2.9.8)

     b.So we should associate by vibration and not by the physical presence. That is real association. (SPL aug 18,1968)

     c.Threfore we should take advantage of the vani, not the physical presence, because the vani continues to exist eternally. (Nov 4, 1975)

These three statements clearly show which is more important , the guru in a physical form or the guru in the presence of Transcendental SOUND. And there are many more just like these.

3) Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system--namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. We have to pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.

Letter to Dayananda - San Francisco 12 April, 1968

So in this letter again we find Srila Prabhupada explaining the "big picture". Your lost in some city, but if you know where you should be, you just ask people, especially those who would know, how do I get to this place/person? Once Prabhupada disappears to our mortal vision, this is not a problem for future generations, because they only have to pick up the most recent prominent acarya and follow him.And if he is prominent, he will NOT be hard to find.  Very simple and very clearly explained. Srila Prabhupada is the most recent  prominent acarya, therefore we must follow him for that alone is sufficient for our spiritual lives. Even Christians today can become disciples of Christ if they follow him and his teachings--Prabhupada

clearly explained this in Seattle back in 1968. But you will never find a Christian priest today claiming he has been ordered by Jesus to accept new disciples. But the priests DO accept and teach new disciples in the NAME of Jesus. And everyone accepts and understands it is JESUS who is the one who is taking their sins, and delivering them.  

4) Reporter (2): What will happen to the movement in the United States
when you die?
Prabhupada: I will never die.
Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol! (laughter)
Prabhupada: I shall live for my books, and you will utilize.
Reporter (2): Are you training a successor?
Prabhupada: Yes, my Guru Maharaja is there. Where is my photo of Guru
Maharaja? I think... Here is.

So again here Srila Prabhupada explains the  spiritual master is the principle, not the body idea of what and who is Guru. Otherwise how do you explain how the movement can go on since he is telling us he will never die, but live from his books which all of us will utilize-eternally if need be. The problem arises when the foolish neophyte disciples "kill the guru" by trying to take his place. And so ends the disciplic sucession,at that point because nobody can become guru unless he is authorized and qualified.

The movement will continue, if for nothing else, simply because of Prabhupadas books And in the above, he says, the successor is his guru maharaj (not even him, taking the humble position) And Why is  Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj the successor? Because he is the most recent prominent link in the param para. Our Prabhupada is just being humble here and giving all credit for the continuance to his guru maharaj. 

5) Why this Gaudiya Matha failed? Because they tried to become more than guru. He, before passing away, he gave all direction and never said that "This man should be the next acarya." But ... the failure. They never thought, "Why Guru Maharaja gave us instruction so many things, why he did not say that this man should be acarya?" They wanted to create artificially somebody ... with common sense that if Guru Maharaja wanted to appoint somebody as acarya, why did he not say? He said so many things, and this point he missed? The real point?
And they insist upon it. They declared some unfit person to become acarya. Then another ....

Room Conversation - August 16, 1976, Bombay

This is a very clear explanation of what NOT to do after our acarya leaves our vision. If you want to fail, then appoint, elect, create an acarya board, etc or whatever you fantasize, but none of it will work. Why not? Because none of these things were the order of Srila Prabhupada. Also important in this statement is the idea that Srila  Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj would not leave this world AND leave the continuation of his Gaudiya matha UNCLEAR to his disciples. And because  Srila Prabhupada is bringing up this point, then why would HE also leave the continuation of HIS movement UNCLEAR?? Prabhupada never left anything unclear and would ask his disciples several times in a conversation --"Is that clear"? So this most important thing, "THE REAL POINT" how the movement would go on, he left --THIS UNCLEAR?? What an absurd idea and proposition.

6) 23.  If everyone just initiates then there will only be a contradictory result. As long as it goes on there will be only failure.

Phalguna Krishna Pancami 

This is what we have going on right now--anybody who can gather by threats, by politics or  bribes of prasadam, enough votes from the GBC, he or she can be elected as GURU of iskcon. Wheres the "tradition" for this action? So the Gaudiya matha failed for this reason. Failed means not having some buildings to "show" a Deity, but failed means- the  vigorous preaching activity stopped.  And why did the preaching stop?

Because men who were less than neophytes or kanistha at best, occupied the seat meant for Uttama adhikaris. When people win the lottery, most of the time, this huge increase in wealth ruins their personal lives. Why? Because they are not ready for it, nor know how to handle Laxsmi, so because their hearts are unclean, this wealth and prestige takes them down the road to hell. Where is the magnificent  original 11 today? This is why Srila Prabhupada warned his Godbrothers and us his disciples and followers today, NOT to take this path of "thinking" we are qualified to take on karma and deliver souls back to Godhead without the qualifications. The result is only FAILURE,as he says, as we have sadly seen.

7) ..He never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Math. But Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja, and he ... the acarya is being changed three times a year. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. Actually amongst my Godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya....

Letter to Rupanuga - Tirupati 28 April,1974

How can Srila Prabhupada make this any more clear?? Only personal ambition can cloud the proper understanding of these crystal clear words from our Acarya.

8) Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC. Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you're no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted. Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acaryas.

Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya?
Prabhupada: Rtvik, yes

Conversation - May 28th, 1977, Vrindavana

So here a one pointed question is asked of Srila Prabhupada-what will happen in the future when you are no longer with us?? He clearly states, he wants disciples to act, just like priests do in the Christian religion, as brahmanas do in the Ramanuja and Madhva sampradayas today, as representatives of him the Acarya of the Hare Krsna Movement, called iskcon. This is called ritviks or priests. And these ritviks are the same devotees who were doing the exact same activity as they were doing before Prabhupada called them "ritviks" in this conversation.  The only difference is that nobody knew or heard of this word-ritvik at that time. The actions of the ritviks were to be the exact same actions they were doing before when initiating new candidates all over the world on BEHALF of Srila Prabhupada.

The only difference now is that eveyone knew what their TITLE was--a ritvik priest who acts on behalf of the Acarya. That is the only difference

9) I wish that each and every Branch shall keep their independent identity and cooperate keeping the Acarya in the centre. on this principle we can open any number of branches....

Letter to Kirtanananda - San Francisco 11 February, 1967

This is a very instructive letter given to us because Prabhupada is not only telling us how to continue his movement spiritually, but also how to organize it on the mundane level in relation to government and financial problems which could arise in the future. If the whole Hare Krsna movement was consolidated as one huge corporation, then the failure of one could bring financial ruin to all temples. Therefore, this insturction is given. Practical and spiritual all in one.  Maximum solution minimum words. He never said each temple could have several acaryas/gurus because that is what happened to his old Gaudiya matha, and they failed. So why would he duplicate a failed policy in his movement? He didnt and thats why we have this instruction. And not only that, but the movement would GROW by this method as more temples could be added to the movement IF the acarya was in the center.

10) .... When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru.

Caitanya Critamrita, Madhaya-lila 24.330

How can anybody but an uttama adhikari even think of becomming guru? Only if he or she is a CHEATER. We have all read this quote, but what "gurus" in iskcon follows it? None of them. Another side point is that an actual bona fide guru, pure devotee NEVER really wants this post, and has to be asked or demanded to take up the position. Jesus Christ asked Krsna to remove this cup(austerity) from him. Srila Prabhupada had Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj appear several times to him in dreams to take sannyasa and take up this mission of preaching. Prabhupada said  he was "horrified", because why? He KNEW, just as did Christ, the responsibility connected to this task. But for foolish devotees who have no idea of the mountain of sins they will have to incur and suffer for, and who dont possess the spiritual power to nullify these sins, for them, all they "see" is "profit, adoration ,and distinction" as gurus--all massive pitfalls on the road to Vaikuntha.

So these motivated individuals bypas this important instruction and like King Paundraka did, "assume" the title of acarya, by falsely "thinking" they are qualified

11) All Temple Presidents In the past Temple Presidents have written to Srila Prabhupada recommending a particular devotee's initiation. Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives,[ritviks] Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple. After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada by giving a
spiritual name, or in the case of second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupada has done. The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, the above eleven senior devotees acting
as His representative. After the Temple President receives a letter from these representatives giving the spiritual name or the thread, he
can perform the fire yajna in the temple as was being done before. The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has acceted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace's "Initiated Disciples" book.

Letter to al GBC, all TP - Vrindavana 9 July, 1977
  

So in conclusion to this paper, we have included  just one of many documents in letter form which Srila Prabhupada sent out to his leading disciples worldwide regarding how to continue the process of initiations after he departed from us. It is clear english, and anybody who reads this letter and several others  like it, will honestly conclude that this DOCUMENT is very important as to how the Hare Krsna Movement would continue. This document is only one way Srila Prabhupada made the point the REAL POINT (as mentioned above) how he wanted things to continue. He was to be the acarya, and he would continue to initiate into the future new disciples after he was physically gone. I have included the above quotes to substantiate this final document. The above mentioned quotes give the principle of guru tattva, and this letter gives the physical details of HOW it was to be done. 

12) The Liberation of Sarvabhauma Bhattacary  In this verse from Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.22.4), the Supreme Personality of Godhead explains that His illusory energy can perform the impossible; such is the power of the illusory energy. In many cases philosophical speculators have covered the real truth and have boldly set forth false theories. In ancient times philosophers like Kapila, Gautama, Jaimini, Kanada and similar brahmanas propounded useless philosophical theories, and in modern days so-called scientists are setting forth many false theories about the creation, backed up by seemingly logical arguments. This is all due to the influence of the Supreme Lord's illusory energy. The illusory energy, therefore, sometimes appears correct because it is emanating from the Supreme Correct. To avoid the very bewildering illusory influence, one must accept the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead as they are. Only then can one escape the influence of the illusory energy.

Caitanya Critamrita, Madhaya-lila 6.109

Hare Krsna

Shrila Prabhupada's Quotes on Vani and Vapu

Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound
received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life.
That will make our spiritual life successful. If you feel very
strongly about my absence you may place my pictures on my sitting
places and this will be source of inspiration for you.
(SP Letter to Brahmananda and other students, 19/1/67)

But always remember that I am always with you. As you are always
thinking of me, I am always thinking of you also. Although physically
we are not together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should
be concerned only with this spiritual connection.
(SP Letter to Gaurasundara, 13/11/69)

So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical
presence. That is real association.
(SP Lectures SB, 68/08/18)

There are two conceptions, the physical conception and the
vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary. The
vibrational conception is eternal. When we feel separation from
Krishna or the Spirirual Master, we should just try to remember their
words or instructions, and we will no longer feel that separation.
Such association with Krishna and the Spiritual Master should be
association by vibration not physical presence. That is real
association.
(SP in Elevation to Krishna Consciousness,(BBT 1973), Page 57)

Although according to material vision His Divine Grace Shrila
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarsavati Thakura Prabhupada passed away from this
material world on the last day of December 1936, I still consider his
Divine Grace to be always present with me by his vani, his words.
There are two ways of association - by vani and by vapuh. Vani means
words and vapuh means physical presence. Physical presence is
sometimes appreciable and sometimes not, but Vani continues to exist
eternally. Therefore, one must take advantage of the Vani, not the
physical presence.
(SP in CC, Antya 5 Conclusion)

Therefore we should take advantage of the Vani, not the physical
presence.(SP Letter to Suci Devi Dasi, 4/11/75)

I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not
physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja.
(SP Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 14/7/77)

It is sometimes misunderstood that if one has to associate with
persons engaged in devotional service, he will not be able to solve
the economic problem. To answer this argument, it is described here
that one has to associate with liberated persons not directly,
physically, but by understanding, through philosophy and logic, the
problems of life.
(SP in SB 3:31:48)

I am always with you. Never mind if I am physically absent.
(SP Letter to Jayananda, 16/9/67)

Paramananda: We're always feeling your presence very strongly, Shrila Prabhupada,
simply by your teachings and your instructions. We're always meditating on your instructions.
Shrila Prabhupada: Thank you. That is the real presence. Physical presence is not
important. (SP Room Conversation, Vrndavana, 6/10/77)

You write that you have desire to avail of my association again, but
why do you forget that you are always in association with me? When
you are helping my missionary activities I am always thinking of you,
and you are always thinking of me . That is real association. Just
like I am always thinking of my Guru Maharaja at every moment,
although he is not physically present, and because I am trying to
serve him to my best capacity, I am sure he is helping me by his
spiritual blessings. So there are two kinds of association: physical
and preceptorial. Physical association is not so important as
preceptorial association.
(SP Letter to Govinda Dasi, 18/8/69)

As far as my blessing is concerned, it does not require my physical
presence. If you are chanting Hare Krishna there, and following my
instructions, reading the books, taking only Krishna prasadam etc.,
then there is no question of your not receiving the blessings of Lord
Chaitanya, whose mission I am humbly trying to push on.
(SP Letter to Bala Krishna, 30/6/74)

'Anyone who has developed unflinching faith in the Lord and the
Spiritual Master can understand the revealed scripture unfolding
before him'. So continue your present aptitude and you will be
successful in your spiritual progress. I am sure that even if I am
not physically present before you, still you will be able to execute
all spiritual duties in the matter of Krishna Consciousness, if you
follow the above principles.
(SP Letter to Subala, 29/9/67)

So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be
accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we
have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living.
(SP General lectures, 69/01/13)

Devotee: ...so sometimes the Spiritual Master is far away. He may be
in Los Angeles. Somebody is coming to Hamburg Temple. He thinks 'How
will the Spiritual Master be pleased?'
Shrila Prabhupada: Just follow his order, Spiritual Master is along
with you by his words. Just like my Spiritual Master is not
physically present, but I am associating with him by his words.
(SP SB Lectures, 71/08/18)

Just like I am working, so my Guru Maharaja is there, Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati. Physically he may not be, but in every action he is there.
To serve master's word is more important than to serve physically.
(SP Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 2/5/77)

So that is called prakata, physically present. And there is another
phrase, which is called aprakata, not physically present. But that
does not mean, Krishna is dead or God is dead. That does not mean,
prakata or aprakata, physically present or not present, it does not
matter. (SP Lectures SB 73/12/11)

So, spiritually, there is no question of separation, even physically
we may be in far distant place.
(SP Letter to Syama Dasi, 30/08/68)

I went to your country for spreading this information of Krishna
Consciousness and you are helping me in my mission, although I am not
physically present there but spiritually I am always with you.
(Letter to Nandarani, Krishna Devi and Subala, 3/10/67)

We are not separated actually. There are two - Vani or Vapuh - so
Vapu is physical presence and Vani is presence by the vibration, but
they are all the same.
(SP Letter to Hamsadutta, 22/6/70)

So in the absence of physical presentation of the spiritual master,
the Vaniseva is more important. My Spiritual Master Sarsavati
Goswami, may appear to be physically not present, but still because I
try to serve his instruction, I never feel separated from him.
(SP Letter to Karandhara, 22/8/70)

I also do not feel separation from my Guru Maharaja. When I am
engaged in his service, his pictures give me sufficient strength. To
serve master's word is more important than to serve him physically.
(SP Letter to Syamasundara, 19/7/70)

So far as personal association with Guru is concerned, I was only
with Guru Maharaj 4 or 5 times, but I have never left his
association, not even for a moment. Because I am following his
instruction, I have never felt any separation. There are some of my
Godbrothers here in India, who had constant personal association with
Guru Maharaja, but who are neglecting his orders. This is just like
the bug who is sitting on the lap of the king. He may be very puffed
up by his position but all he can succeed in doing is biting the
king. Personal association is not so important as association through
serving. (SP Letter to Satyadhana, 20/2/72)

So spiritually appearance and disappearance, there is no
difference ... spiritually there is no such difference, appearance or
disappearance. Although this is the disappearance day of Om Vishnupada
Shri Shrimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, there is nothing to be
lamented, although we feel separation.
(SP Lecture, Los Angeles 13/12/73)

So my Guru Maharaja will be very, very much pleased with you ... it
is not that he is dead and gone. That is not spiritual
understanding ... he is seeing. I never feel that I am alone.
(SP Lecture, 2/3/75)

Vani is more important than vapuh.
(SP Letter to Tusta Krishna Das, 14/12/72)

Yes I am glad that your centre is doing so well and all the devotees
are now appreciating the presence of their spiritual master by
following his instructions, although he is no longer present. This is
the right spirit.
(SP Letter to Karandhara, 13/9/70)

The spiritual master by his words, can penetrate into the heart of
the suffering person and inject knowledge transcendental which alone
can extinguish the fire of material existence.
(SP in SB(1987 Ed) 1.7.22)

There are two words, vani and vapuh. Vani means words, and vapuh
means the physical body. Vapuh will be finished. This material body
it will be finished, that is the nature. But if we keep to the vani,
to the words of the spiritual master, then we remain very fixed
up...if you always keep intact, in link with the words and
instructions of the higher instructions, then you are always fresh.
This is spiritual understanding.
(SP General lectures, 75/03/02)

So we should give more stress on the sound vibration, either of Krishna
or Spiritual Master. Never think that I am absent from you, presence
by message(or hearing) is the real touch.
(SP Letter to students, August 1967)

Reception of spiritual knowledge is never checked by any material
condition. (SP SB (1987)Ed) 7.7.1.)

The potency of transcendental sound is never minimised because the
vibrator is apparently absent.
(SP in SB 2.9.8)

The disciple and Spiritual Master are never separated because the
Spiritual Master always keeps company with the disciple as long as
the disciple follows strictly the instructions of the Spiritual
Master. This is called the association of Vani. Physical presence is
called Vapuh. As long as the Spiritual Master is physically present,
the disciple should serve the physical body of the Spiritual Master,
and when the Spiritual Master is no longer physically existing, the
disciple should serve the instructions of the Spiritual Master.
(SP in SB 4:28:47)

If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a
devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no
difference between the spiritual masters instructions and the
spiritual master himself. In the absence therefore, his words of
direction should be pride of the disciple.
(SP in CC(1975 Ed) Adi 1.35)

He lives forever by his divine instructions, and the follower lives
with him. (SP in SB(1962 Ed) Preface)

He reasons ill who tells that Vaishnavas die, when thou art still
living in sound. (Shrila Bhaktivinoda Thakura)

Yes, the ecstacy of separation of Spiritual Master is even greater
ecstasy than meeting with him.
(SP Letter to Jadurani, 13/1/68)

Krishna and his representative are the same. Similarly, the spiritual
master can be present wherever the disciple wants. A spiritual master
is the principle, not the body. Just like a television can be seen in
thousands of place by the principle of relay monitoring.
(SP Letter to Malati, 28/5/68)

It is better service to Krishna and Spiritual Master in a feeling of
separation; sometimes there is a risk in the matter of direct service.
(SP Letter to Madhusudana, 31/12/67)

All quotes by Shrila Prabhupada are copyrighted by The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International Inc.