What is real and what is bogus initiation? - Part 2

By: 

Dama Ghosha Dasa (Seattle, USA)

Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj also states that if one has been considered to be initiated by a bona fide guru then the symptoms in the disciple should manifest, namely brahminical behavior.  Effect should follow proper cause. Yet if we see that so many of the new "disciples' of this modern age, don’t even chant Hare Krishna mantra, or follow the 4 regulative principles, then this simply means that person from whom they took "initiation"  was not a bona fide guru in the first place. 

I read one story of a devotee who sat in on a discussion of some iskgurus who were saying that practically all of their disciples fall away in 2-3 years, so get as much (money) out of them as soon as you can. This is the mentality of a family priest, not a Vaishnava acharya.

 

So after these two types of cheaters come together for some guru-disciple business, then what happens?  Shastra states that the bogus guru and the bogus disciple both go to hell. Not a very pretty picture is it?

 

WHAT IS REAL INITIATION?

 

Conversations, May 20, 1975, Melbourne

                

Devotee (3): Srila Prabhupada, if one goes to the temple, if one attends the temple regularly and inquires from the devotees about the devotional principles, and because of some reason, it's not necessarily... it's not convenient for him to live in the temple at that time, and he is living with people...

 

Prabhupada: No, no, you live in temple or without temple, if you follow the instruction, that is wanted. If you live without temple and chant sixteen rounds and observe the regulative principle, that's all right. It doesn't require that you should live in the temple. And if you live in the temple and do all nonsense, then what is the use of living in the temple?

 

Devotee: Is it wrong to think of initiation then? Or initiated also?

 

Prabhupada: Their "thinking" means they are not fixed up. That very word suggests that they are not fixed up. Oh, initiation can take place anywhere.

 

[In the above conversation we see Srila Prabhupada stressing that initiation can take place anywhere. Many devotees think that initiation has to take place ONLY in a temple with the fire sacrifice, all your family members, Temple President, GBC sanction, etc. Yet here Srila Prabhupada states that initiation can take place anywhere. Why is that?

 

Because initiation means it is an affair of the heart when the aspirant decides he or she wants to be guided by the parampara disciplic succession as delivered down through eternal time. When THAT time comes, THAT moment in time is considered "initiation". Then a formal initiation can take place later, even decades later or  11 years, as was Srila Prabhupada's personal case.]

 

Lectures, December 10, 1976, Hyderabad                  

 

So anyway, from 1922 [when he first met Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj] to 1933 practically I was not initiated, but I got the impression of preaching Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's cult. That I was thinking. And that was the initiation by my Guru Maharaja. Then officially I was initiated in 1933 because in 1923 I left Calcutta. I started my business at Allahabad. So I was always thinking of my Guru Maharaja, that "I met a very nice sadhu." Although I was doing business I never forgot him.

 

[So above is the proof by Srila Prabhupada himself. He states that he first met Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj in 1923, at which point he considered himself "initiated" even though he waited until 11 years later for the formal initiation, due to business concerns which took him out of Calcutta and away from Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj.]

 

Conversations, October 16, 1976, Chandigarh                

 

Interviewer: What is the procedure of the movement? Do you initiate yourself all the disciples or do your other disciples also do that? 

 

Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing....  So our this movement is successful... 

 

[In this conversation Srila Prabhupada states that  for initiation, the first thing is knowledge, not the banana thrown into the sacred fire. First we have to be convinced about what we are hearing and doing, then that conviction becomes our desire for initiation within the heart by following the teachings laid down by the acharyas in our sampradaya.]

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 10.13.54   

 

The visnu-murtis all had eternal, unlimited forms, full of knowledge and bliss and existing beyond the influence of time. Their great glory was not even to be touched by the jnanis engaged in studying the Upanishads.

 

PURPORT

 

Mere shastra jnana, or knowledge in the Vedas, does not help anyone understand the personality of Godhead. Only one who is favored or shown mercy by the Lord can understand Him. This is also explained in the Upanishads (Mundaka Upanishad 3.2.3):

 

nayam atma pravacanena labhyo

na medhasa na bahuna srutena

yam evaisa vrnute tena labhyas

tasyaisa atma vivrnute tanum svam

 

"The Supreme Lord is not obtained by expert explanations, by vast intelligence, or even by much hearing. He is obtained only by one whom He Himself chooses. To such a person, He manifests His own form."

What is real and what is bogus initiation? - Part 1

By:  Dama Ghosha Dasa (Seattle, USA)

We have below more valuable information which confirms the principles of bona fide initiation vs. non bonafide and the symptoms by which one can judge for himself.

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj writes in the book Brahmana and Vaishnava....

 

..."If an initiated person has not undergone the sacred thread ceremony, then according  to the statement of Brihaspati, a compiler of Dharma shastra, he has simply transgressed religious principles. The scriptures state that after receiving initiation one becomes twice born. If this was not so, then it is to be concluded that he has certainly not been properly initiated. If one is properly initiated then the results must come. A cause is known by its effects. If one claims to be a Vaishnava guru while neglecting the tat tenaiva vinirdiset verse, ("he should be accepted according to those symptoms of classification" statement of Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.35),  then he should be rejected. This is the purport of the scriptures.

 

One who assumes the dress and position of  an acharya, who speaks against conclusions of Srimad Bhagavatam and other scriptures or who performs kirtan opposed to the proper glorification of Sri Krishna, certainly goes to hell for countless lifetimes along with his disciples and whoever else hears such non devotional talks and kirtans...."

 

The above reference to Srimad Bhagavatam is 7.11.35 --  If one shows the symptoms of being a brahmana, kshatriya, vaishya or shudra, as described above, even if he has appeared in a different class, he should be accepted according to those symptoms of classification.

 

And in Srila Prabhupada’s purport to Srimad Bhagavatam 8.20.1 -

   

Anyone who is supposed to be a guru but who goes against the principle of visnu-bhakti cannot be accepted as guru. If one has falsely accepted such a guru, one should reject him. Such a guru is described as follows (Mahabharata, Udyoga 179.25):

 

guror apy avaliptasya

karyakaryam ajanatah

utpatha-pratipannasya

parityago vidhiyate

 

Srila Jiva Gosvami has advised that such a useless guru, a family priest acting as guru, should be given up, and that the proper, bona-fide guru should be accepted.

 

Ishopanishad 12          

                                         

The pseudo religionists have neither knowledge nor detachment from material affairs, for most of them want to live in the golden shackles of material bondage under the shadow of philanthropic activities disguised as religious principles. By a false display of religious sentiments, they present a show of devotional service while indulging in all sorts of immoral activities. In this way they pass as spiritual masters and devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acharyas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. They ignore the Vedic injunction acaryopasana --"One must worship the acharya" — and Krishna’s statement in the Bhagavad-gita (4.2) evam parampara-praptam, "This supreme science of God is received through the disciplic succession." Instead, to mislead the people in general they themselves become so-called acharyas, but they do not even follow the principles of the acharyas.

 

These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Bg. 16.19-20). Sri Ishopanishad confirms that these pseudo religionists are heading toward the most obnoxious place in the universe after the completion of their spiritual master business, which they conduct simply for sense gratification. 

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 1.19.37 Purport - The Appearance of Sukadeva Gosvami   

  

Unless one is perfectly anxious to inquire about the way of perfection, there is no necessity of approaching a spiritual master. A spiritual master is not a kind of decoration for a householder.

 

Generally a fashionable materialist engages a so-called spiritual master without any profit. The pseudo spiritual master flatters the so-called disciple, and thereby both the master and his ward go to hell without a doubt. Maharaja Parikshit is the right type of disciple because he puts forward questions vital to the interest of all men, particularly for the dying men. The question put forward by Maharaja Parikshit is the basic principle of the complete thesis of Srimad-Bhagavatam. 

 

CONCLUSIONS - So many come in Kali yuga and claim they are Guru - but the Srimad Bhagavatam says one should judge these persons by their behavior first, then such persons can be classified as Brahmana, Kshatriya or whatever. If one sees that a person who is claiming to be Vaishnava guru doesn't even chant 16 rounds, the minimum given by his own guru, then what kind of guru is he? If this same or similar person has also been found to be engaged in sinful acts, then how is he guru?