Ramananda Raya's conversation with Lord
Caitanya
TLC 32
Conclusion
Lord
Caitanya next asked Ramananda Raya, "What is the most
valuable
thing in the world?"
Ramananda Raya replied that he who has love for
Radha-Krsna possesses the most valuable jewel
and the greatest riches.
One who is addicted to material sense gratification or
material wealth
is not really considered to be wealthy. When one comes to
the
spiritual platform of Krsna consciousness, he can
understand that
there are no riches more valuable than love of
Radha-Krsna. It is
recorded in Srimad-Bhagavatam that Maharaja Dhruva sought
out the
Supreme Lord because he wanted to get some land, but
when he finally
saw Krsna, he said, "I am so pleased, I don't want
anything." In
Bhagavad-gita it is also stated that if one takes shelter
of the
Supreme Personality of Godhead or is elevated to the
supreme state of
love of Godhead, he has nothing more to aspire to.
Although such
devotees can attain whatever they desire from the Lord,
they do not
ask anything from Him.
When Lord
Caitanya asked Ramananda Raya what is considered to
be
the most painful
existence,
Ramananda
Raya replied that separation
from a pure devotee constitutes the most painful
existence. In other
words, when there is no devotee of the Lord present,
there is great
suffering in society, and association with other people
becomes
painful. In ▼Srimad-Bhagavatam (3.30.7) it is
stated that if one who
is bereft of the association of a pure devotee tries to
become happy
through society, friendship and love devoid of Krsna
consciousness, he
is to be considered in the most distressed
condition. In the Fifth
Canto of Brhad-bhagavatamrta (5.44) it is stated that
the association
of a pure devotee is more desirable than life itself and
that in
separation from him one cannot even pass a second
happily.
Lord
Caitanya then asked Ramananda Raya, "Out of many
so-called
liberated souls, who is actually
liberated?"
Ramananda replied that he who is actually completely
saturated with the devotional love for Radha and Krsna is to be considered to be
the best of all liberated
persons. It is stated in ▼Srimad-Bhagavatam (6.14.4) that
a devotee of
Narayana is so rare that one can only find him out of
millions and
millions of people.
"And out of all songs, what song do you think is the best of
all?"
Caitanya Mahaprabhu asked.
And Ramananda replied that any song
which
describes the pastimes of Radha and Krsna is the best
song. In
conditional life, the soul is captivated by sex. All
fictions--dramas
and novels--and material songs describe love between men
and women.
Since people are so attracted to this kind of literature,
Krsna
appeared in this material world and displayed His
transcendental
loving affairs with the gopis. There is an immense
literature dealing
with the transactions between the gopis and Krsna, and
anyone who
takes shelter of this literature or of the stories about
Radha and
Krsna can enjoy actual happiness. In Srimad-Bhagavatam
(10.33.36) it
is said that the Lord displayed His pastimes in Vrndavana
in order to
reveal His actual life. Any intelligent person who tries
to understand
the pastimes of Radha and Krsna is most fortunate. The
songs that tell
of those pastimes are the greatest songs in the
world.
Lord
Caitanya then inquired: "What is the most profitable thing
in
the world, the essence of all auspicious events?"
Ramananda Raya replied that there is nothing as
profitable as the association of pure
devotees.
"And
what do you recommend a person to think of?" Lord
Caitanya
asked.
Ramananda replied that one should always think of the
pastimes
of Krsna. This is Krsna consciousness. Krsna has
multiple activities,
and they are described in many Vedic scriptures. One
should always
think of those pastimes; that is the best meditation and
the highest
ecstasy. In ▼Srimad-Bhagavatam (2.2.36) Sukadeva Gosvami
confirms that
one should always think of the Supreme Personality of
Godhead--not
only think of Him, but one should also hear and chant His
name, fame
and glories.
"And what is the best type of
meditation?" Lord Caitanya inquired.
"He who always meditates on the lotus feet of Radha and Krsna
is
the best meditator," Ramananda Raya answered. This
is also confirmed
in ▼Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.2.14): "It is the Supreme
Personality of
Godhead alone who is the master of all devotees, whose
name one should
always chant and who should always be meditated upon and
worshiped
regularly."
"Where should a person live, giving up all other pleasures?"
Lord
Caitanya next inquired.
Ramananda replied that one should give up
all
other pleasures and should live in Vrndavana where Lord
Krsna had so
many pastimes. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.47.61)
Uddhava says that it is
best to live in Vrndavana even if one has to live as a
plant or
creeper. It was in Vrndavana that the Supreme Lord lived
and it was
there that the gopis worshiped the Supreme Lord, the
ultimate goal of
all Vedic knowledge.
"And what is the best subject to hear of?" Caitanya Mahaprabhu
next
asked.
"The pastimes of Radha and Krsna,"
Ramananda replied. Actually when
the pastimes of Radha and Krsna are heard from the right
source, one
at once attains liberation. Unfortunately it
sometimes happens that
people do not hear of these pastimes from a person who is
a realized
soul. Thus people are sometimes misguided. It is stated
in
Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.33.40) that one who hears of the
pastimes of
Krsna with the gopis will attain the highest platform of
devotional
service and will be freed from the material lust which
overwhelms
everyone's heart in the material world. In other
words, by hearing the
pastimes of Radha and Krsna, one can get rid of all
material lust. If
one does not become freed from material lust in this way,
then he
should not indulge in hearing of the pastimes of Radha
and Krsna.
Unless one hears from the right source, he will
misinterpret the
pastimes of Radha and Krsna, considering them to be
ordinary affairs
between a man and woman. In this way one may be
misguided.
"And
who is the most worshipable Deity?" Caitanya Mahaprabhu
next
inquired.
Ramananda Raya immediately replied that the transcendental
couple, Sri Radha and Krsna, is the ultimate object of
worship. There
are many worshipable objects--the impersonalists worship
the
brahmajyoti, for instance--but by worshiping objects
other than Radha
and Krsna, one becomes bereft of life's symptoms and
becomes just like
a tree or other nonmoving entity. Those who
worship the so-called void
also attain such results. Those who are after material
enjoyment
(bhukti) worship the demigods and achieve their planets
and thus enjoy
material happiness.
Lord Caitanya next inquired about those who
are
after material happiness and liberation from material
bondage. "Where
do they ultimately go?" He asked.
Ramananda Raya replied that ultimately some turn into
trees and others attain the heavenly planets where they enjoy material
happiness.
Ramananda Raya went on to say that those who have no taste
for
Krsna consciousness or spiritual life are just like crows
who take
pleasure in eating the bitter nimba fruit. It is the
poetic cuckoo
that eats the seeds of the mango. The unfortunate
transcendentalists
simply speculate on dry philosophy, whereas the
transcendentalists who
are in love with Radha and Krsna enjoy fruit just like
the cuckoo.
Thus those who are devotees of Radha and Krsna are most
fortunate. The
bitter nimba fruit is not at all eatable; it is simply
full of dry
speculation and is only fit for crowlike philosophers.
Mango seeds,
however, are very relishable, and those in the devotional
service of
Radha and Krsna enjoy them.
Thus
Ramananda Raya and Caitanya Mahaprabhu talked for the
entire
night. Sometimes they danced, sometimes sang and
sometimes cried.
After passing the night in this way, at dawn Ramananda
Raya returned
to his place. The next evening he returned to see
Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
After discussing Krsna for some time, Ramananda Raya fell
at the feet
of the Lord and said, "My dear Lord, You are so kind to
me that You
have told me about the science of Krsna and Radharani and
Their loving
affairs, the affairs of the rasa dance and Their
pastimes. I never
thought that I should be able to speak on this subject
matter. You
have taught me as You formerly taught the Vedas to
Brahma."
Being very satisfied, Lord Caitanya smiled and showed Ramananda His
real form as the combination of Sri Radha and Krsna. Thus
Lord
Caitanya was Sri Krsna Himself with the external features
of Srimati
Radharani. His transcendental ability to
become two and then to become
one again was revealed to Ramananda Raya. Those
who are fortunate
enough to understand Lord Caitanya as well as the
Vrndavana pastimes
of Radha and Krsna can be able, by the mercy of Sri Rupa
Gosvami, to
know about the real identity of Sri Krsna Caitanya
Mahaprabhu.
Upon
seeing this unique feature of Lord Caitanya, Ramananda
Raya
fainted and fell on the floor. Lord Caitanya then
touched him, and he
came to his senses. Ramananda Raya was then surprised to
see Lord
Caitanya again in His mendicant dress. Lord Caitanya
embraced and
pacified him and informed him that he was the only one
to have seen
this form. "Because you have understood the purpose of My
incarnation,
you are privileged to have seen this particular feature
of My
personality," the Lord said. "My dear Ramananda,
I am not a different
person with a fair complexion known as Gaurapurusa. I am
the selfsame
Krsna the son of Maharaja Nanda, and due to contact with
the body of
Srimati Radharani I have now assumed this form. Srimati Radharani does
not touch anyone but Krsna; therefore She has influenced
Me with Her
complexion, mind and words. In this way I am just trying
to understand
the transcendental flavor of Her relationship with
Krsna."
The fact is
that both Krsna and Lord Caitanya are the original
Personality of Godhead. No one should try to eliminate
Lord Caitanya
from Sri Krsna. In His form of Sri Krsna, He is
the supreme enjoyer,
and in His form of Lord Caitanya, He is the supreme
enjoyed. No one
can be more superexcellently attractive than Sri Krsna,
and but for
Sri Krsna, no one can enjoy the supreme form of devotion,
Srimati
Radharani. But for Sri Krsna, all Visnu forms are
lacking this
ability. This is explained in the description of
Govinda in
Caitanya-caritamrta. There it is said that Srimati
Radharani is the
only personality who can infuse Sri Krsna with
transcendental
pleasure. Thus Srimati Radharani is the chief
damsel of Vraja in love
with Govinda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri
Krsna.
You can understand this yourself and keep it to yourself.
From
a materialistic point of view, a devotee becomes mad in
his ecstasy of
love for Krsna. Both you and I are just like
madmen. So please don't
disclose these facts to ordinary men. If you do, they
will surely
laugh at Me."
Lord
Caitanya then passed ten nights with Ramananda Raya, enjoyed
his company and discussed the pastimes of Krsna and
Radha. The
discussions between them were on the highest level of
love for Krsna.
Some of these talks are described, but most of
them could not be
described.
In Caitanya-caritamrta this has been compared
to
metallurgic examination. The metals compared are
discussed in the
following sequence: first copper, then bronze, then
silver, gold and
at last touchstone. The preliminary discussions between
Lord Caitanya
and Ramananda Raya are considered to be like copper, and
the higher
discussions are considered to be like gold. The fifth
dimension of
their discussions, however, is considered to be like
touchstone. If
one is eager to attain the highest
understanding, he must begin
with
an inquiry into the differences between copper
and bronze, then silver
and
gold and so on.
footnote--these
last statements comparing different metals to sucessively higher
understandings
refer
to an earlier discussion between Ramananda Raya and Lord Caitanya
where
5
basic ideas for Dharma were presented by Ramananda Raya beginning with- how
one should
just
perform his occupational duty;;next was give up all results to Krsna, then
renunciation
without
fruitive result; then brahman realization without fruitive work or mental
speculation until finally he came to hearing from the lips of a pure
devotee-which Lord Caitanya accepted as the
correct
process for this age of Kali, since none of the previous methods are feasible
due the implications and
impurity of the age and its inhabitants..
Hare
Krsna
Damaghosa
das
“You always have my blessings; the father always wishes that the son may be more successful than himself. This is the spiritual conception. If one is doing well, then the materialistic persons become envious and try to check his progress. This was actually so with Prahlada Maharaja, he was only 5 years old, he was preaching Krishna consciousness to his school friends, and the father Hiranyakashipu became so envious that he attempted to kill his 5 year old son in so many ways. Krishna consciousness is just the opposite, if someone is doing well then the attitude of the devotee is to give him all facility to go on and improve more and more. Yes we are running on the mercy of the spiritual master, to understand this point is to get mercy more and more. Yasya prasadat bhagavata prasada.”
To those of you ...who don't accept Srila Prabhupada’s ritvik/diksha initiation system… You just have to give up your big egos and believe in the words/instructions of your spiritual master. For once in your lives admit that there may be some one that is smarter than you (Srila Prabhupada). This system is the ONLY way that Iskcon could have survived as a united cohesive preaching unit. But since the philosophical deviations of the GBC/leaders and the subsequent introduction of the bogus 2/3 voted in kanistha zonal guru system, Iskcon has degraded into something that wasn't part of Srila Prabhupada’s vision for it. As a result we have the Iskcon we have today ...