This is a REPLY to Rochana Prabhu on his COMPLETE MISUNDERSTANDING of BOTH Guru AND Ritvik Issue: Part 2

By: 

Mahesh Raja (UK)

Madhya 4.111 Sri Madhavendra Puri’ s Devotional Service

Diksha actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination.

 

So here we see from above definition of Diksha quotes:

 

1) Transcendental Knowledge awakened, initiated

2) Becomes freed from all material contamination; vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity.

 

Now ask a simple question HOW can a Brahmana (Kanistha) who is NOT freed from MATERIAL CONTAMINATION GIVE DIKSHA - BY WHICH - ONE BECOMES FREED FROM **ALL** MATERIAL CONTAMINATION?

 

Just take a look at how contradictory and stupid this looks: 

 

Q1) HOW can a Brahmana (Kanistha) who is HIMSELF material contaminated free another person from **ALL** MATERIAL CONTAMINATION?

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 9.19.25 Purport King Yayati Achieves Liberation

 

The word vidhuta, meaning “cleansed,” is very significant. Everyone in this material world is contaminated (karanam guna-sango ‘sya). Because we are in a material condition, we are contaminated either by sattva-guna, by rajo-guna or by tamo-guna. Even if one becomes a qualified brahmana in the mode of goodness (sattva-guna), he is still materially contaminated. One must come to the platform of suddha-sattva, transcending the sattva-guna. Then one is vidhuta-trilinga, cleansed of the contamination caused by the three modes of material nature. 

 

Q 2) If a Brahmana (Kanistha) had Transcendental Knowledge then why is in contaminated by goodness (sattva-guna)?

 

Diksha is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity.

 

Diksha actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination

 

Q 3) So HOW can a Kanistha (Brahmana) who HIMSELF is material contaminated does NOT have Transcendental Knowledge give another person Transcendental Knowledge to free him?

 

Common-sense: What you do NOT have you CAN NOT give to others.

 

Conversations, February 14, 1977, Mayapur

 

Prabhupada: Vaishnava is not so easy. The varnasrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaishnava. It is not so easy to become Vaishnava.

 

Hari-sauri: No, it’s not a cheap thing.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaishnava, to become Vaishnava, is not so easy. If Vaishnava, to become Vaishnava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyasa is for the highest qualified brahmana. And simply by dressing like a Vaishnava, that is… fall down.

 

Hari-sauri: So the varnasrama system is like for the kanisthas, Kanistha-adhikari.

 

Prabhupada: Kanistha?

 

Hari-sauri: When one is only on the platform of neophyte.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Kanistha-adhikari, yes.

 

Hari-sauri: Varnasrama system is beneficial.

 

Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari means he must be a brahmana. That is kanistha-adhikari. The spiritual life, kanistha-adhikari, means he must be a qualified brahmana. That is kanistha. What is esteemed as very high position in the material world, brahmana, that is kanistha-adhikari.

 

arcayam eva haraye

pujam yah sraddhayehate

na tad-bhaktesu canyesu

sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah

 

The brahmana means from the material stage gradually he is elevated to the spiritual stage. And below the brahmana there is no question of Vaishnava.

 

Hari-sauri: No question of?

 

Prabhupada: Vaishnavism.

 

Conversations, February 6, 1976, Mayapur

 

Dayananda: But what about the persons who may be a little bit devoted but who have not achieved that unalloyed devotion?

 

Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari. They are not devotees, but they are called bhaktabhasa. There is some signs of bhakti. Actually they are not bhakta. Bhaktabhasa. Abhasa. Abhasa means a simple, a little light.

 

Hridayananda: So devotee really means one who has love for Krishna.

 

Prabhupada: Yes, unalloyed, without any condition. Anyabhilasita-sunyam, zero, all other, that “I am this, I am that, I am jnani, I am yogi, I am karmi, I am minister, I am king”- all these are thinking like that, they’re all nonsense. “I am servant of Krishna”--that is greatness. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa. That is self-realization, atma-tattvam.

 

Madhya 20.59 Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu Instructs Sanatana Gosvami in the Science

 

PURPORT

 

This verse is spoken by Prahlada Maharaja in Srimad-Bhagavatam (7.9.10). A brahmana is supposed to be qualified with twelve qualities. As stated in the Mahabharata:

 

dharmas ca satyam ca damas tapas ca

amatsaryam hris titiksanasuya

yajnas ca danam ca dhrtih srutam ca

vratani vai dvadasa brahmanasya

 

“A brahmana must be perfectly religious. He must be truthful, and he must be able to control his senses. He must execute severe austerities, and he must be detached, humble and tolerant. He must not envy anyone, and he must be expert in performing sacrifices and giving whatever he has in charity. He must be fixed in devotional service and expert in the knowledge of the Vedas. These are the twelve qualifications for a brahmana.”

 

Bhagavad-gita describes the brahminical qualities in this way:

 

samo damas tapah saucam

ksantir arjavam eva ca

jnanam vijnanam astikyam

brahma-karma svabhava-jam

 

“Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness - these are the qualities by which the brahmanas work.” (Bg. 18.42)

 

In the Muktaphala-tika, it is said:

 

samo damas tapah saucam

ksanty-arjava-virakta yah

jnana-vijnana-santosah

satyastikye dvisad gunah

 

“Mental equilibrium, sense control, austerity, cleanliness, tolerance, simplicity, detachment, theoretical and practical knowledge, satisfaction, truthfulness and firm faith in the Vedas are the twelve qualities of a brahmana.”

 

Lectures, August 28, 1973, London

 

So first of all, we have to become brahmana. Then Vaishnava. Brahmana simply knows that “I am spirit soul,” aham brahmasmi. Brahma janati iti brahmana. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. By such knowledge one becomes prasannatma. Means relieved. As you feel relief… When there is burden on your head, and the burden is taken away you feel relieved, similarly, this ignorance that “I am this body” is a great burden, a burden upon us. So when you get out of this burden, then you feel relieved. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. Means when actually one understands that “I am not this body; I am soul,” then he has to work so hard for maintaining this body, so he gets relief that “Why I am working so hard for this lump of material things? Let me execute my real necessity of life, spiritual life.” That is great relief. That is great relief. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati. The relief means there is hankering, no more lamentation. These are the brahma-bhutah.

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 1.2.20 Purport Divinity and Divine Service

 

The very same thing is confirmed herein in the above words. No ordinary man, or even one who has attained success in human life, can know scientifically or perfectly the Personality of Godhead. Perfection of human life is attained when one can understand that he is not the product of matter but is in fact spirit. And as soon as one understands that he has nothing to do with matter, he at once ceases his material hankerings and becomes enlivened as a spiritual being. This attainment of success is possible when one is above the modes of passion and ignorance, or, in other words, when one is actually a brahmana by qualification. 

 

A BRAHMANA IS THE SYMBOL OF SATTVA-GUNA, OR THE MODE OF GOODNESS. AND OTHERS, WHO ARE NOT IN THE MODE OF GOODNESS, ARE EITHER KSATRIYAS, VAISYAS, SUDRAS OR LESS THAN THE SUDRAS. THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE IS THE HIGHEST STAGE OF HUMAN LIFE BECAUSE OF ITS GOOD QUALITIES. SO ONE CANNOT BE A DEVOTEE UNLESS ONE AT LEAST QUALIFIES AS A BRAHMANA. The devotee is already a brahmana by action. But that is not the end of it. AS REFERRED TO ABOVE, SUCH A BRAHMANA HAS TO BECOME A VAISHNAVA IN FACT TO BE ACTUALLY IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL STAGE. A PURE VAISHNAVA IS A LIBERATED SOUL AND IS TRANSCENDENTAL EVEN TO THE POSITION OF A BRAHMANA. IN THE MATERIAL STAGE EVEN A BRAHMANA IS ALSO A CONDITIONED SOUL BECAUSE ALTHOUGH IN THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE THE CONCEPTION OF BRAHMAN OR TRANSCENDENCE IS REALIZED, SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUPREME LORD IS LACKING. ONE HAS TO SURPASS THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE AND REACH THE VASUDEVA STAGE TO UNDERSTAND THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD KRISHNA.

 

Divya-jnana means:  Divya TRANSCENDENTAL and Jnana means KNOWLEDGE

 

So UNLESS one is on TRANSCENDENTAL PLATFORM means Uttama Adhikari (Maha Bhagavata) there can NOT be any question of Transcendental Knowledge of one’s CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION coming FROM him. THIS EFFECTIVELY DISQUALIFIES KANISTHA AND MADHYAM (MIDDLE STAGE) FROM GIVING DIKSHA -- AUTOMATICALLY. 

 

Hrde means heart and Prokasito means revealed just as in prakasa – manifested Krishna becomes manifest in the heart of the Pure Devotee.

 

REPLY to Rochana Prabhu

This is a REPLY to Rochana Prabhu on his COMPLETE MISUNDERSTANDING of BOTH Guru AND Ritvik Issue: Part 1

By: 

Mahesh Raja (UK)

July 9, 1977. Letter to: All G.B.C., All Temple Presidents

The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace’s  “Initiated Disciples” book. 

 

Amar Puri Prabhu wrote to Rochana Prabhu and Rochana Prabhu Replies: 

 

“So who gave you permission, Amar Puri, to decide that the system will be changed upon his departure so that names get sent to someone else? Or not sent? Or whatever?” — Rochana

 

Mahesh: Srila Prabhupada had ALREADY given instruction of HOW he wanted the prospective disciples ACCEPTED. The system was ALREADY in place. Besides this, use of LITTLE COMMON-SENSE is necessary. WHAT sort of person can REPRESENT Srila Prabhupada. If REPRESENTATIVE OF ACHARYA falls down he CAN be REPLACED: 

 

Note: OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE is the Ritvik Representative as per July 9th 1977 Order 

 

Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse

 

Similarly, a disciple’s qualifications must be observed by the spiritual master before he is accepted as a disciple. IN OUR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS MOVEMENT, THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT ONE MUST BE PREPARED TO GIVE UP THE FOUR PILLARS OF SINFUL LIFE - ILLICIT SEX, MEAT-EATING, INTOXICATION AND GAMBLING. IN WESTERN COUNTRIES ESPECIALLY, WE FIRST OBSERVE WHETHER A POTENTIAL DISCIPLE IS PREPARED TO FOLLOW THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES. THEN HE IS GIVEN THE NAME OF A VAISHNAVA SERVANT AND INITIATED TO CHANT THE HARE KRISHNA MAHA-MANTRA, AT LEAST SIXTEEN ROUNDS DAILY. In this way the disciple renders devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR. HE IS THEN RECOMMENDED FOR A SECOND INITIATION, DURING WHICH A SACRED THREAD IS OFFERED AND THE DISCIPLE IS ACCEPTED AS A BONA FIDE BRAHMANA.

 

Conversations, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan

 

Tamala Krishna: Of course, IF SOMEONE HAS A FALLDOWN, just like in the past some GBC men have fallen down…

 

Prabhupada: HE SHOULD BE REPLACED.

 

Tamala Krishna: Then he should be replaced. But that’s a serious fall down, not some minor discrepancy.

 

Prabhupada: THEY MUST BE ALL IDEAL ACHARYA-LIKE. IN THE BEGINNING WE HAVE DONE FOR WORKING. Now we should be very cautious. ANYONE WHO IS DEVIATING, HE CAN BE REPLACED. One can replace a Representative of Acharya if he deviates BUT one can NOT replace DIKSHA Guru because he MUST be a Maha bhagavata OTHERWISE he is NOT DIKSHA GURU. It is 3rd offense in chanting to accept any other than a Maha bhagavata:

 

Nectar of Devotion 8 Offenses to Be Avoided

 

The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) TO DISOBEY THE ORDERS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER.

 

Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse

 

MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho

brahmano vai gurur nrnam

sarvesam eva lokanam

asau pujyo yatha harih

maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi

sarva-yajnesu diksitah

sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca

na guruh syad a vaisnavah

 

((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY SUCH A PERSON IS ELIGIBLE TO OCCUPY THE POST OF A GURU.))

 

Rochana Dasa in his “Church of Ritvik”:

 

Nectar of Instruction Text 5

 

“One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaishnava or a Vaishnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.” 

 

Nectar of Instruction, Text 5 

 

If one reads the above Purport, which contains the statement used by the HKS to support their position, it is clear that Srila Prabhupada is suggesting that a guru should ideally be an uttama-adhikari. We have to keep in mind, however, the fact that Srila Prabhupada is Himself an uttama-adhikari and a Sampradaya Acharya. At the time Nectar of Instruction was published, the reader had a choice to take initiation directly from Srila Prabhupada. But Srila Prabhupada also clearly says in this quote that there are gurus in all three categories: kanistha, madhyama, and uttama-adhikari. He does not state that he is referring here to diksha gurus rather than siksa gurus. He does state that the problem with having a guru that is not uttama-adhikari is that the initiated can’t advance beyond the level of their guru’s realization. Consequently, he cautions that the disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as their guru. He does not say, however, that gurus in the other two categories are bogus, or are not part of the sampradaya, or are just pretending to be gurus but are actually not gurus. Clearly, the Hare Krishna Society would like you believe that he is saying these things. While it is absolutely true that there is no Sampradaya Acharya who has ever fallen down, and that certain things disqualify a diksha guru, they cannot make the case that Srila Prabhupada has instructed that one must never accept a kanistha or madhyama as diksha guru. ”

 

Mahesh: We will just take a segment of his ERRONEOUS understanding of the DIKSHA Guru AND PROVE HIM COMPELETELY WRONG THAT KANISTHA AND MADHYAMA ARE **NOT** DIKSHA GURU as he SPECULATES:

 

Rochana Dasa: “While it is absolutely true that there is no Sampradaya Acharya who has ever fallen down, and that certain things disqualify a diksha guru, they cannot make the case that Srila Prabhupada has instructed that one must never accept a kanistha or madhyama as diksha guru. ” 

 

Mahesh:

Nectar of Instruction 5

 

“One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaishnava or a Vaishnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.” 

 

Some devotees are taking this above quote to mean that Kanistha can give Diksha. This is NOT what Srila Prabhupada says. There is NO mention of Diksha by kanistha. What it exactly says is about accepting DISCIPLES. Then suggests very strongly 2 points:

 

1) ”..they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.” 

 

2) “One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. 

 

The question is can a Kanistha give DIKSA from this quote? The answer is NO!

 

So how can we establish that Kanistha does NOT give diksha? Kanistha is a QUALIFIED Brahmana. But even such a QUALIFIED Brahmana is in MATERIAL CONTAMINATION. And because he has MATERIAL CONTAMINATION he does NOT have Transcendental Knowledge. What you do NOT have you can NOT give. And it is Transcendental Knowledge that frees one from ALL MATERIAL CONTAMINATION.

 

Definition of Diksha:

 

Madhya 15.108 The Lord Accepts Prasada at the House of Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya

 

Srila Jiva Gosvami explains diksha in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283):

 

divyam jnanam yato dadyat

kuryat papasya sanksayam

tasmad dikseti sa prokta

desikais tattva-kovidaih

 

“Diksha is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksha.”