Srila Prabhupada WILL accept new disciples

Anyone who follows the directions of Srila Prabhupada (as in his order of July 9th),
can now and into the future be accepted by Srila Prabhupada himself, as one of his disciples.

In his recent article on the Sampradaya Sun, titled “Automatic?,” Mahavidya Prabhu argues that the supporters of Srila Prabhupada’s rtvik order are denying him his right to reject aspiring disciples. I’ve appreciated Mahavidya’s writing on many occasions,but that accusation is wrong.

There is no need for Srila Prabhupada to accept (or reject) individual disciples now, because historical record shows that he chose to distance himself from that role and delegate it to rtviks instead. This can be shown clearly in four events in 1977:

1. April 22, Tamal Krsna Gosvami tells Srila Prabhupada that he does not think any of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples are qualified at the level of guru, and Srila Prabupada agrees, telling TKG that he is waiting for someone to become qualified. This contradicts any earlier evidence someone may put forward saying that he had authorized gurus. As of April 22, 1977, he had not.

Conspicuously absent is any mention by Srila Prabhupada of how he supposedly authorized everyone to be initiating guru with a private letter to Tusta Krsna swami several years earlier.

2. On May 28, Satsvarupa das Gosvami formally asked Srila Prabhupada how initiations were to continue after his disappearance, and he immediately replied, “Officiating acarya… Rtvik, yes.” As if unsatisfied with this, his disciples brought the conversation around to discussion of gurus, and Srila Prabhupada emphasized it would be upon his order, an order that apparently was never given.

3. Srila Prabhupada signed a document dated July 9, 1977, indicating that the rtviks listed therein were to act on his behalf in accepting disciples, which would then be Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. (TKG mentioned on at Topanga Canyon on Dec. 3, 1980, that Srila Prabhupada told him more rtviks could be added.) With this document, Srila Prabhupada materiallyremoved himself from the decision-making process in accepting disciples, having already clearly established his standard of 16 rounds, 4 regs, etc. Nowhere in this document is there any termination clause or any other contradiction of Srila Prabhupada’s prior expressed choice to employ the rtvik method for accepting disciples in ISKCON after his disappearance.

4. That Srila Prabhupada dismissed himself from the decision of accepting disciples was confirmed on October 18, when the desire of one man to become his disciple was presented to Srila Prabhupada, and Srila Prabhupada referred five times to the “deputies” he had made to go to instead. Reading the conversation gives me the impression that he was a little annoyed at being bothered to verbally accept a disciple when he had already delegated that role.

Leaving aside other supporting evidence for the sake of time and space, these four events clearly illustrate the relevant decision that Srila Prabhupada actually made, to continue accepting disciples after his disappearance via the rtvik method he instituted. Therefore it is far better to focus on honoring Srila Prabhupada’s expressed order rather than worrying that someone might wrongly accept a disciple on his behalf and force Srila Prabhupada to save another soul and deliver another devotee to Krishna against his will. Yeah, it sounds ridiculous. Have we forgotten Srila Prabhupada’s mercy?

The way Mahavidya presented it, one unaware might think Srila Prabhupada was big on rejecting his aspiring disciples. We know he accepted several thousand, including some who were just passing through and many whom he never met. How many did he reject? Mahavidya acts as if he knows of one but yet calls him a disciple, so that suggests Srila Prabhupada accepted him too. I would like to know what, if any, evidence anyone has to suggest that Srila Prabhupada would reject an aspiring disciple who would meet the criteria for initiation that he established for ISKCON. In the absence of such evidence, I find it extremely mislead for anyone to stand in the way of aspiring disciples wanting to take shelter at Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet.

Some, including Mahavidya Prabhu recently if I recall correctly, have presented an argument they seem to find very clever, that if we can be initiated as Srila Prabhupada’s disciples even now, then that means we could just as well be initiated as disciples of any past acarya. They say, devoid of logic, that the rtvik system is invalid because I could become the godbrother of Krishna’s spiritual master, for example. This again ignores the fact that Srila Prabhupada created a worldwide institution and a rtvik method within that institution for accepting disciples in his absence, and he said this was the method to be used after his disappearance. The previous acaryas came in a different time, place, and circumstance, and did not do that. History shows that Srila Prabhupada did.

Others present the idea that somehow a guru cannot accept disciples after his disappearance. I’m not sure whether they think this is a limitation on Krishna’s abilities, on the guru’s, or both.

Considering that an ordinary rich person can give his material wealth after his disappearance to someone he has never met but who meets certain qualifications, I find it impossible to believe that on the spiritual platform a guru cannot give his spiritual wealth in an equivalent situation. Materially, it happens every day. Someone has loads of money and establishes a foundation, with funding, trustees, criteria for awards, etc., and money is given as designated, even after the founder’s death. Srila Prabhupada’s establishment of the rtvik system in ISKCON during his manifest pastimes provides a similar infrastructure, making that system possible even now.

Given that Srila Prabhupada provided the means for accepting disciples after his disappearance, directly said to utilize the rtvik method after his disappearance, widely promulgated a written order following that, referred to the same in laterconversations and letters, and never subsequently contradicting this order… if the “walks like a duck, quacks like a duck” logic is good for anything, then rtvik system is undoubtedly what Srila Prabhupada wanted to do.

Therefore one should accept the decisions Srila Prabhupada made rather than falsely accusing others of stealing from Srila Prabhupada a decision that he formally delegated. Hare Krishna

——

COMMENT BY COREY

One question for Krsna dasa: Since, according to you, we can’t have Srila Prabhupada as our guru, then WHO are we supposed to take shelter of? Who is your guru, Krsna dasa?

Second question: Where did Srila Prabhupada ever authorize or order anyone to become diksa gurus? He only authorize them to become ritviks. So, unless you can present evidence to the contrary, I will stick with the system of initiation that Srila Prabhupada DID IN FACT establish, the ritvik system.

Good luck finding such evidence, because according to Tamal Krishna, it does not exist:

“You cannot show me anything on tape or in writing where Prabhupada says: “I appoint these eleven as gurus.” It does not exist because he never appointed any gurus. This is a myth.” – (Tamal Krishna Goswami, December 3, 1980)

-
Four objections to the ritvik system that has been put
forth in this article. Here are some answers to such objections.

BY COREY

FIRST OBJECTION: supporters of Srila Prabhupada’s rtvik order are denying him his right to reject aspiring disciples.

ANSWER: On July 7th, when setting up the ritvik system, Srila Prabhupada states that the ritviks could accept devotees as his disciples without consulting him. Thus, Srila Prabhupada was not involved in the process of screening, or approving new disciples. The ritviks had full authority and discretion. Srila Prabhupada’s physical involvement was not required.

Srila Prabhupada: So without waiting for me, wherever you consider it is right. That will depend on discretion.
Tamal Krishna: On discretion.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes.
(Srila Prabhupada Room conversation, 7/7/77, Vrindavan)

Furthermore, the names given by the ritviks would be entered by Tamal Krishna Goswami into the “Initiated disciples” book. Thus, externally at least, Srila Prabhupada would not even have been aware of the disciple’s existence. Consequently, the process now would be the same as it was then, since the ritvik has full power of attorney.

SECOND OBJECTION: that if we can be initiated as Srila Prabhupada’s disciples even now, then that means we could just as well be initiated as disciples of any past acarya.

ANSWER: Two things prevent this from being a bona fide option:

1. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, and other previous acaryas, did not authorise a ritvik system to run “henceforward”.

2. We must approach the current link:

“…in order to receive the real message of Srimad-Bhagavatam one should approach the current link, or spiritual master, in the chain of disciplic succession.” (S.B. 2.9.7, purport)
It is self-evident that Srila Prabhupada is the sampradaya acarya who succeeded Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. Srila Prabhupada is therefore our current link, and is thus the correct person to approach for initiation.

THIRD OBJECTION: Others present the idea that somehow a guru cannot accept disciples after his disappearance.

ANSWER: There is nothing in the July 9th Final Order letter that says the instruction for ritviks was only meant for whilst Srila Prabhupada was physically present. In fact, the only information given supports the continuation of the ritvik system after Srila Prabhupada’s departure. It is significant to note that within the July 9th letter it is stated three times that those initiated would become Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. The GBC in presenting evidence for the current guru system have argued vigorously that Srila Prabhupada had already made it clear that, as far as he was concerned, it was an inviolable law that no one could initiate in his presence. Thus the necessity to state Srila Prabhupada’s ownership of future disciples must indicate that the instruction was intended to operate during a time period when the ownership could even have been an issue, namely after his departure.

For some years Srila Prabhupada had been using representatives to chant on beads, perform the fire yajna, give gayatri mantra etc. No one had ever questioned whom such new initiates belonged to. Right at the beginning of the July 9th letter it is emphatically stated that those appointed are “representatives” of Srila Prabhupada. The only innovation this letter contained then was the formalisation of the role of the representatives; hardly something which could be confused with a direct order for them to become fully-fledged diksa gurus. Srila Prabhupada’s emphasis on disciple ownership would therefore have been completely redundant were the system to operate only in his presence, especially since as long as he was present he could personally ensure that no one claimed false ownership of the disciples. As mentioned above, this point is hammered home three times in a letter which itself was quite short and to the point:

“So as soon as one thing is three times stressed, that means final.” (Srila Prabhupada Bg. Lecture, 27/11/68, Los Angeles)

The July 9th letter states that the names of newly initiated disciples were to be sent “to Srila Prabhupada” – Could this indicate that the system was only to run while Srila Prabhupada was physically present? Some devotees have argued that since we can no longer send these names to Srila Prabhupada, the ritvik system must therefore be invalid.

The first point to note is the stated purpose behind the names being sent to Srila Prabhupada, ie., so they could be included in his “Initiated Disciples” book. We know from the July 7th conversation (please see Appendices) that Srila Prabhupada had nothing to do with entering the new names into this book, it was done by his secretary. Further evidence that the names should be sent for inclusion in the book, and NOT specifically to Srila Prabhupada is given in the letter written to Hamsadutta, the very next day, where Tamala Krishna Goswami explains his new ritvik duties to him:

“…you should send their names to be included in Srila Prabhupada’s ‘Initiated Disciples’ book.” (Letter to Hamsadutta from Tamala Krishna Goswami, 10/7/77)

Their is no mention made here of needing to send the names to Srila Prabhupada. This procedure could easily have continued after Srila Prabhupada’s physical departure. Nowhere in the final order does it state that if the “Initiated Disciples” book becomes physically separated from Srila Prabhupada all initiations must be suspended.

The next point is that the procedure of sending the names of newly initiated disciples to Srila Prabhupada in any case relates to a post-initiation activity. The names could only be sent after the disciples had already been initiated. Thus an instruction concerning what is to be done after initiation cannot be used to amend or in any way interrupt pre-initiation, or indeed initiation procedures (the ritvik’s role being already fulfilled well before the actual initiation ceremony takes place). Whether or not names can be sent to Srila Prabhupada has no bearing on the system for initiation, since at the point where new names are ready to be sent, the initiation has already occurred.

The last point is that if sending the names to Srila Prabhupada were a vital part of the ceremony, then even before Srila Prabhupada’s departure, the system would have been invalid, or at least run the constant risk of being so. It was generally understood that Srila Prabhupada was ready to leave at any time, thus the danger of not having anywhere to send the names was present from day one of the order being issued. In other words, taking the possible scenario that Srila Prabhupada leaves the planet the day after a disciple has been initiated through the ritvik system, according to the above proposition, the disciple would not actually have been initiated simply because of the speed by which mail is delivered. We find no mention in Srila Prabhupada’s books that the transcendental process of diksa, which may take many lifetimes to complete, can be obstructed by the vicissitudes of the postal service. Certainly there would be nothing preventing the names of new initiates being entered into His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book even now. This book could then be offered to Srila Prabhupada at a fitting time.

FOURTH OBJECTION: It is absolutely clear that Srila Prabhupada wanted the disciplic succession to continue and not terminate with him.

ANSWER: The disciplic succession, or guru parampara, is eternal; there is no question of it stopping. According to Srila Prabhupada, the Sankirtan Movement, (and hence ISKCON), will only exist for the next 9,500 years. Compared with eternity 9,500 years is nothing, a mere blip in cosmic time. This would appear to be the time period during which Srila Prabhupada shall remain the “current link” within ISKCON, unless he or Krishna countermands the July 9th order, or some external circumstance renders the order impossible to follow (such as total thermo-nuclear annihilation).

Previous acaryas have remained current for long periods of time, thousands (Srila Vyasadeva) or even millions of years (see quote below). We see no reason why the duration of Srila Prabhupada’s reign as “current link”, even if it extends right till the end of the Sankirtan Movement, should pose any particular problem.

“Regarding Parampara System: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps [...] we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system – namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamperfrom understanding the parampara system. We have to pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him [...] We have to pick up from the authority of the acarya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.” (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dayananda, 12/4/68)

Gaps in the Disciplic Succession: Regarding your third question—”Why are there apparent time‐gaps in the line of disciplic succession as listed in the Bhagavad‐gita? Is Arjuna an instructor Spiritual Master and not an initiator Spiritual Master and therefore not listed?” The time gap mentioned by you is inevitable, because the disciplic succession sometimes becomes disconnected, as we find from the Bhagavad‐gita. This is the influence of material energy, and to link it up again, it takes some time. That some time may appear to our calculation a big gap, but in relation with the eternal time, it is not even as instant. So this big gap or small gap of time is relative. Just like our 24 hours and Brahma’s 24 hours, there is much difference. Our 24 hours is not even a fraction of his second….” (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Rupanuga Hawaii 14 March, 1969)

Disciplic Succession does not always mean that one has to be initiated officially
Regarding the disciplic succession coming from Arjuna, disciplic succession does not always mean that one has to be initiated officially. Disciplic succession means to accept the disciplic conclusion. Arjuna was a disciple of Krishna and Brahma was also a disciple of Krishna. Thus there is no disagreement between the conclusions of Brahma and Arjuna. Vyasadeva is in the disciplic succession of Brahma. The teachings to Arjuna was recorded by Vyasadeva verbatim. So according to the axiomatic truth, things equal to one another are equal to each other. We are not exactly directly from Vyasadeva, but our Gurudeva is a representative of Vyasadeva. Because Vyasadeva and Arjuna are of equal status, being students of Krishna, therefore we are in the disciplic succession of Arjuna. Things equal to the same thing are equal to one another. (Srila Prabhupada letter to Dinesh Tittenhurst 31 October, 1969)

The July 9th order is significant since it means thatSrila Prabhupada shall be the Prominent Acarya, at least for members of ISKCON, for as long as the Society exists. Only the direct intervention of Srila Prabhupada or Krishna can revoke the final order (such intervention needing to be at least as clear and unequivocal as a signed directive sent to the entire Society). Thus until some counter-instruction is given, the science of devotional service shall continue to be transmitted directly by Srila Prabhupada to successive generations of his disciples. Since this is a common phenomenon in our disciplic succession, there is no cause for alarm. The succession can only be considered “ended” if this science of devotional service is lost. On such occasions, Lord Krishna Himself usually descends to re-establish the principles of religion. As long as Srila Prabhupada’s books are in circulation, this “science” shall remain vigorously intact, and perfectly accessible.

DISCUSSING SRILA PRABHUPADA IS THE DIKSHA GURU - PART-1

Nimai Pandit Das: My desire is to come to understand fully, if it is the Truth (I am keeping the possibility open that it may not be), and to explore the possibility that the process of Diksha is explained so comprehensively, THAT THERE CAN BE NO QUESTION TO ACCEPT THAT ONLY SRILA PRABHUPADA IS THAT DIKSHA GURU, OF ALL OURS. AND THAT AS A SIDE ISSUE JULY 9TH LETTER is of course, so natural. I think to try to prove/disapprove the July 9th letter from the angle of past “ritvik” practices is superficial and a play in logic by both sides.

 

Mahesh: VERY EASY. Let’s consider the following facts:

 

1) WHY did Srila Prabhupada ARRANGE to have his OWN murti in ALL the temples in ISKCON for worshiping during Guru Puja UNLESS he was GIVER OF the DIVYA Jnana hrdaya prakasito HE GIVES DIVYA JNANA (DIKSHA)

ONLY a MAHABHAGAVATA is accepted as Worshipable Diksha Guru as per Chaitanya Charitamrita Madhya 24.330. Srila Prabhupada is THE ACHARYA of ISKCON. 

 

NOTE: It is ONLY ACHARYA that can give DIKSHA because even in NOD this is stated REGARDING ACCEPTING INITIATION from the spiritual master it refers to Srimad Bhagavatam 11.17.27 which is ACHARYA.

 

Nectar of Devotion 7 — Evidence Regarding Devotional Principles 

 

REGARDING ACCEPTING INITIATION from the spiritual master, in the Eleventh Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Seventeenth Chapter, verse 27, it is stated by Lord Krishna, “My dear Uddhava, the spiritual master must be accepted not only as My representative, but as My very self. He must never be considered on the same level with an ordinary human being. One should never be envious of the spiritual master, as one may be envious of an ordinary man. The spiritual master should always be seen as the representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and by serving the spiritual master one is able to serve all the demigods.”  

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.7.15 — Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brihaspati: 

 

“By the mercy of the spiritual master one is benedicted by the mercy of Krishna. Without the grace of the spiritual master, one cannot make any advancement.” A disciple should never be a hypocrite or be unfaithful to his spiritual master. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.17.27), THE SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ALSO CALLED ACHARYA. Acaryam mam vijaniyan: the Supreme Personality of Godhead says that one should respect the spiritual master, accepting him as the Lord Himself. Navamanyeta karhicit: one should not disrespect the acharya at any time. Na martya-buddhyasuyeta: one should never think the acharya an ordinary person. Familiarity sometimes breeds contempt, but one should be very careful in one’s dealings with the acharya. Agadha-dhisanam dvijam: the acharya is a perfect brahmana and has unlimited intelligence in guiding the activities of his disciple.  

 

2) Srila Prabhupada put it DELIBERATELY in all his books FOUNDER-ACHARYA. Srila Prabhupada did NOT say he was only ISKCON founder. There is HYPHEN in between the words Founder AND Acharya which indicates HE IS ALSO ITS CURRENT ACHARYA.  

 

3) There is ALSO the FACT that ONLY INITIATED DISCIPLE will be Director. This means HE wanted to REMAIN the INITIATOR for the EXISTENCE of the society:  Other WILL Srila Prabhupada’s Will

 

The executive directors who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said directors, a successor director or directors may be appointed by the remaining directors, provided the new director is MY INITIATED DISCIPLE following strictly all the rules and regulations of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness as detailed in my books, and provided that there are never less than three (3) or more than five (5) executive directors acting at one time. 

 

4) Letter: Madhudvisa, August 4, 1975 

 

The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I AM THE INITIATOR GURU, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.

 

Conversations, March 12, 1968, San Francisco

 

Prabhupada: Yes, I AM the spiritual master of this institution, and ALL the members of the society, they’re supposed to be MY disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually. So therefore the spiritual master is called guru. That is Sanskrit language. 

 

5) Disciple belongs to whoever gives DISCIPLINE TO him: In ISKCON we are ALL being DISCIPLINED by Srila Prabhupada (we receive instructions DISCIPLINE) FROM Srila Prabhupada’s books. Even the most basic discipline, 16 rounds of Hare Krishna Mantra and four Regulative Principles are coming FROM Srila Prabhupada. Common sense — if you ARE being disciplined BY Srila Prabhupada then it follows you ARE Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. How can it be otherwise?  The MEANING of the word “disciple”

 

Srila Prabhupada’s Morning Walk, March 8, 1976 in Mayapur: 

 

Prabhupada: “Discipline… Disciple means discipline. The word discipline comes from disciple, or disciple comes from discipline. So unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. This discipline must… That should be uniform. Otherwise, sisya… sisya, the word sisya, it comes from the root, verb, sas-dhatu. sas. sas means ruling. From this word, sasana. Sasana means government. sastra. sastra means weapon, and sastra, scripture, and sisya… These things have come from the one root sas-dhatu. So sas-dhatu means ruling under discipline. There is another English word, that “Obedience is the first law of discipline,” or something. They say, “Obedience is the first law of discipline”? So I am right? “Obedience is…”? That is the…

 

Tamala Krishna: Yes, that’s more or less what it is.

 

Prabhupada: No, what is the word, exact. There is an English word. “Obedience is the first law of discipline.” So unless there is obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. DISCIPLE MEANS ONE WHO FOLLOWS DISCIPLINE.”

 

Discipline comes from Srila Prabhupada. We are actually being disciplined by Srila Prabhupada. It is Srila Prabhupada who has given us the regulative principles of no meat, fish or eggs; no intoxication (including tea and coffee), no illicit sex, and no gambling. It is Srila Prabhupada who has made it a regulative principle for us to chant sixteen rounds on the beads HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE /HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.

 

Srila Prabhupada’s books contain all the instructions, the guidance required for us to get ourselves out of the clutches of the modes of material nature. In fact, Srila Prabhupada is personally present as his books. 

 

Chaitanya-charitamrita, Adi 1, Text 35:

 

“There is NO DIFFERENCE between the spiritual master’s instructions and the spiritual master himself.”

 

Since the instructions of the spiritual master and the spiritual master are not different, one can be the disciple of Srila Prabhupada by following his discipline and can be considered Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. Another point is he can be considered both direct disciple and not direct simultaneously, because Srila Prabhupada is still present in his instruction form (his books). The following example will illustrate the point.

Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja is the example of both direct and not direct disciple simultaneously. (THE PHILOSOPHY OF SIMULTANEOUS ONENESS AND DIFFERENCE). 

 

Chaitanya-charitamrita, Adi 1:

 

“A direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami was Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The author of Sri Chaitanya-charitamrita, Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, stands as the DIRECT DISCIPLE of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The direct disciple of Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Vishvanatha Chakravarti as his servitor. Srila Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, who initiated Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn initiated Srila Gaurakishora dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Vishnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self. Since we belong to this chain of disciplic succession from Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, this edition of Sri Chaitanya-charitamrita will contain nothing newly manufactured by our tiny brains, but only remnants of food originally eaten by the Lord Himself.”  

 

Chaitanya-charitamrita, Antya 19.102: 

 

Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was not actually a direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami, but he FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS given by Srila Rupa Gosvami in Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu. He therefore ACTED ACCORDING TO THE DIRECTIONS of Rupa Gosvami and prayed in every chapter for his mercy.  

 

6) Note: It is SUCCESSION MEANS to SUCCEED Srila Prabhupada is the LAST name in Disciplic Succession of ACHARYAS:

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 3.29.17  Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila

 

In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge BY ACCEPTING THE ACHARYA. Acaryopasanam: one should worship an acharya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION FROM KRISHNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACHARYAS.  

 

Reply to Rocana Dasa on his COMPLETE MISUNDERSTANDING of BOTH the Guru and Ritvik Issue---COMPLETE ARTICLE

Reply to Rocana Dasa on his COMPLETE MISUNDERSTANDING of BOTH the Guru and Ritvik Issue

 

This is a REPLY to Rocana Prabhu on his COMPLETE MISUNDERSTANDING of BOTH Guru AND Ritvik Issue:

 

77-07-09.All Letter: All G.B.C., All Temple Presidents
The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book.”

 

Note Srila Prabhupada’s SECRETARY entered the names in the His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book.”  It did NOT require  VAPU(physical) presence of Srila Prabhupada to do this menial task.

 

July 7, 1977, Vrndavana

TAMALA KRSNA: YOU KNOW THAT BOOK I'M MAINTAINING OF ALL OF YOUR DISCIPLES' NAMES? SHOULD I CONTINUE THAT?

PRABHUPADA: HM.

TAMALA KRSNA: SO IF SOMEONE GIVES INITIATION, LIKE HARIKESA MAHARAJA, HE SHOULD SEND THE PERSON'S NAME TO US HERE AND I'LL ENTER IT IN THE BOOK. OKAY

 

Amar Puri Prabhu wrote to Rocana Prabhu and Rocana Prabhu Replies:
“So who gave you permission, Amar Puri, to decide that the system will be changed upon his departure so that names get sent to someone else? Or not sent? Or whatever?” — Rocana

 

Mahesh: Srila Prabhupada had ALREADY given instruction of HOW he wanted the prospective disciples ACCEPTED. The system was ALREADY in place. Besides this, use of LITTLE COMMON-SENSE is neccesary WHAT sort of person can REPRESENT Srila Prabhupada. If REPRESENTATIVE OF ACARYA falls down he CAN be REPLACED:

 

Note: OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE is the Ritvik Representative as per July 9th 1977 Order Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
Similarly, a disciple’s qualifications must be observed by the spiritual master before he is accepted as a disciple. IN OUR KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS MOVEMENT, THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT ONE MUST BE PREPARED TO GIVE UP THE FOUR PILLARS OF SINFUL LIFE-ILLICIT SEX, MEAT-EATING, INTOXICATION AND GAMBLING. IN WESTERN COUNTRIES ESPECIALLY, WE FIRST OBSERVE WHETHER A POTENTIAL DISCIPLE IS PREPARED TO FOLLOW THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES. THEN HE IS GIVEN THE NAME OF A VAISNAVA SERVANT AND INITIATED TO CHANT THE HARE KRSNA MAHA-MANTRA, AT LEAST SIXTEEN ROUNDS DAILY. In this way the disciple renders devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR. HE IS THEN RECOMMENDED FOR A SECOND INITIATION, DURING WHICH A SACRED THREAD IS OFFERED AND THE DISCIPLE IS ACCEPTED AS A BONA FIDE BRAHMANA.

 

770528me.vrn Conversations
Tamala Krsna: Of course, IF SOMEONE HAS A FALLDOWN, just like in the past some GBC men have fallen down…
Prabhupada: HE SHOULD BE REPLACED.
Tamala Krsna: Then he should be replaced. But that’s a serious falldown, not some minor discrepancy.
Prabhupada: THEY MUST BE ALL IDEAL ACARYA-LIKE. IN THE BEGINNING WE HAVE DONE FOR WORKING. Now we should be very cautious. ANYONE WHO IS DEVIATING, HE CAN BE REPLACED.

One can replace a Representative of Acarya if he deviates BUT one can NOT replace DIKSA Guru because he MUST be a Mahabhagavata OTHERWISE he is NOT DIKSA GURU. It is 3rd offense in chanting to accept any other than a Mahabhagavata:

 

NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) TO DISOBEY THE ORDERS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER.

 

Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu diksitah
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah

((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY SUCH A PERSON IS ELIGIBLE TO OCCUPY THE POST OF A GURU.))

 

Rocana Dasa in his “Church of Rtvik”:
NOI 5

“One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.” (NOI5)

 

“Nectar of Instruction, Text 5

 

If one reads the above Purport, which contains the statement used by the HKS to support their position, it is clear that Srila Prabhupada is suggesting that a guru should ideally be an uttama-adhikari. We have to keep in mind, however, the fact that Srila Prabhupada is Himself an uttama-adhikari and a Sampradaya Acarya. At the time Nectar of Instruction was published, the reader had a choice to take initiation directly from Srila Prabhupada. But Srila Prabhupada also clearly says in this quote that there are gurus in all three categories: kanistha, madhyama, and uttama-adhikari. He does not state that he is referring here to diksa gurus rather than siksa gurus. He does state that the problem with having a guru that is not uttama-adhikari is that the initiated can’t advance beyond the level of their guru’s realization. Consequently, he cautions that the disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as their guru. He does not say, however, that gurus in the other two categories are bogus, or are not part of the sampradaya, or are just pretending to be gurus but are actually not gurus. Clearly, the Hare Krishna Society would like you believe that he is saying these things. While it is absolutely true that there is no Sampradaya Acarya who has ever fallen down, and that certain things disqualify a diksa guru, they cannot make the case that Srila Prabhupada has instructed that one must never accept a kanistha or madhyama as diksa guru. ”

 

Mahesh: we will just take a segment of his ERRONEOUS understanding of the DIKSA Guru AND PROVE HIM COMPELETELY WRONG THAT KANISTHA AND MADHYAMA ARE **NOT** DIKSA GURU as he SPECULATES:

 

Rocana Dasa: “While it is absolutely true that there is no Sampradaya Acarya who has ever fallen down, and that certain things disqualify a diksa guru, they cannot make the case that Srila Prabhupada has instructed that one must never accept a kanistha or madhyama as diksa guru. ”

 

Mahesh:

NOI 5

“One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.” (NOI5)

 

Some devotees are taking this above quote to mean that Kanistha can give Diksa. This is NOT what Srila Prabhupada says. There is NO mention of Diksa by kanistha. What it exactly says is about accepting DISCIPLES. Then suggests very strongly 2 points:

 

1)”..they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.”

 

2)“One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari.

 

The question is can a Kanistha give DIKSA from this quote? The answer is NO!

 

So how can we establish that Kanistha does NOT give diksa?
Kanistha is a QUALIFIED Brahmana. But even such a QUALIFIED Brahmana is in MATERIAL CONTAMINATION. And because he has MATERIAL CONTAMINATION he does NOT have Transcendental Knowledge. What you do NOT have you can NOT give. And it is Transcendental Knowledge that frees one from ALL MATERIAL CONTAMINATION.

 

Definition of Diksa:

Madhya 15.108 The Lord Accepts Prasada at the House of Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya

Srila Jiva Gosvami explains diksa in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283):

divyam jnanam yato dadyat
kuryat papasya sanksayam
tasmad dikseti sa prokta
desikais tattva-kovidaih

“Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa.”

 

Madhya 4.111 Sri Madhavendra Puri’ s Devotional Service
Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination.

 

So here we see from above definition of Diksa quotes:
1) Transcendental Knowledge awakened, initiated
2) becomes freed from all material contamination; vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity

 

Now ask a simple question HOW can a Brahmana(Kanistha) who is NOT freed from MATERIAL CONTAMINATION GIVE DIKSA -BY WHICH- ONE BECOMES FREED FROM **ALL** MATERIAL CONTAMINATION?

 

Just take a look at how contradictory and stupid this looks:

Q1) HOW can a Brahmana (Kanistha) who is HIMSELF material contaminated free another person from **ALL** MATERIAL CONTAMINATION?

 

SB 9.19.25 P King Yayati Achieves Liberation
The word vidhuta, meaning “cleansed,” is very significant. Everyone in this material world is contaminated (karanam guna-sango ‘sya). Because we are in a material condition, we are contaminated either by sattva-guna, by rajo-guna or by tamo-guna. Even if one becomes a qualified brahmana in the mode of goodness (sattva-guna), he is still materially contaminated. One must come to the platform of suddha-sattva, transcending the sattva-guna. Then one is vidhuta-trilinga, cleansed of the contamination caused by the three modes of material nature.

 

Q2) If a Brahmana(Kanistha) had Transcendental Knowledge then why is  contaminated by goodness(sattva-guna)?

Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity.

Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination

 

Q3) So HOW can a Kanistha(Brahmana) who HIMSELF is material contaminated does NOT have Transcendental Knowledge give another person Transcendental Knowledge to free him?

Common-sense: What you do NOT have you CAN NOT give to others.

 

770214r2.may Conversations
Prabhupada: Vaisnava is not so easy. The varnasrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaisnava. It is not so easy to become Vaisnava.
Hari-sauri: No, it’s not a cheap thing.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava, is not so easy. If Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyasa is for the highest qualified brahmana. And simply by dressing like a Vaisnava, that is… fall down.
Hari-sauri: So the varnasrama system is like for the kanisthas, Kanistha-adhikari.
Prabhupada: Kanistha?
Hari-sauri: When one is only on the platform of neophyte.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Kanistha-adhikari, yes.
Hari-sauri: Varnasrama system is beneficial.
Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari means he must be a brahmana. That is kanistha-adhikari. The spiritual life, kanistha-adhikari, means he must be a qualified brahmana. That is kanistha. What is esteemed as very high position in the material world, brahmana, that is kanistha-adhikari.
arcayam eva haraye
pujam yah sraddhayehate
na tad-bhaktesu canyesu
sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah
The brahmana means from the material stage gradually he is elevated to the spiritual stage. And below the brahmana there is no question of Vaisnava.
Hari-sauri: No question of?
Prabhupada: Vaisnavism.

 

760206mw.may Conversations
Dayananda: But what about the persons who may be a little bit devoted but who have not achieved that unalloyed devotion?
Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari. They are not devotees, but they are called bhaktabhasa. There is some signs of bhakti. Actually they are not bhakta. Bhaktabhasa. Abhasa. Abhasa means a simple, a little light.
Hrdayananda: So devotee really means one who has love for Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes, unalloyed, without any condition. Anyabhilasita-sunyam, zero, all other, that “I am this, I am that, I am jnani, I am yogi, I am karmi, I am minister, I am king”--all these are thinking like that, they’re all nonsense. “I am servant of Krsna”--that is greatness. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa. That is self-realization, atma-tattvam.

 

Madhya 20.59 Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Instructs Sanatana Gosvami in the Science
PURPORT
This verse is spoken by Prahlada Maharaja in Srimad-Bhagavatam (7.9.10). A brahmana is supposed to be qualified with twelve qualities. As stated in the Mahabharata:

dharmas ca satyam ca damas tapas ca
amatsaryam hris titiksanasuya
yajnas ca danam ca dhrtih srutam ca
vratani vai dvadasa brahmanasya

“A brahmana must be perfectly religious. He must be truthful, and he must be able to control his senses. He must execute severe austerities, and he must be detached, humble and tolerant. He must not envy anyone, and he must be expert in performing sacrifices and giving whatever he has in charity. He must be fixed in devotional service and expert in the knowledge of the Vedas. These are the twelve qualifications for a brahmana.”

Bhagavad-gita describes the brahminical qualities in this way:

samo damas tapah saucam
ksantir arjavam eva ca
jnanam vijnanam astikyam
brahma-karma svabhava-jam

“Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness--these are the qualities by which the brahmanas work.” (Bg. 18.42)

In the Muktaphala-tika, it is said:

samo damas tapah saucam
ksanty-arjava-virakta yah
jnana-vijnana-santosah
satyastikye dvisad gunah

“Mental equilibrium, sense control, austerity, cleanliness, tolerance, simplicity, detachment, theoretical and practical knowledge, satisfaction, truthfulness and firm faith in the Vedas are the twelve qualities of a brahmana.”

 

730828BG.LON Lectures
So first of all, we have to become brahmana. Then Vaisnava. Brahmana simply knows that “I am spirit soul,” aham brahmasmi. Brahma janati iti brahmana. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. By such knowledge one becomes prasannatma. Means relieved. As you feel relief… When there is burden on your head, and the burden is taken away you feel relieved, similarly, this ignorance that “I am this body” is a great burden, a burden upon us. So when you get out of this burden, then you feel relieved. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. Means when actually one understands that “I am not this body; I am soul,” then he has to work so hard for maintaining this body, so he gets relief that “Why I am working so hard for this lump of material things? Let me execute my real necessity of life, spiritual life.” That is great relief. That is great relief. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati. The relief means there is hankering, no more lamentation. These are the brahma-bhutah.

 

SB 1.2.20 P Divinity and Divine Service
The very same thing is confirmed herein in the above words. No ordinary man, or even one who has attained success in human life, can know scientifically or perfectly the Personality of Godhead. Perfection of human life is attained when one can understand that he is not the product of matter but is in fact spirit. And as soon as one understands that he has nothing to do with matter, he at once ceases his material hankerings and becomes enlivened as a spiritual being. This attainment of success is possible when one is above the modes of passion and ignorance, or, in other words, when one is actually a brahmana by qualification. A BRAHMANA IS THE SYMBOL OF SATTVA-GUNA, OR THE MODE OF GOODNESS. AND OTHERS, WHO ARE NOT IN THE MODE OF GOODNESS, ARE EITHER KSATRIYAS, VAISYAS, SUDRAS OR LESS THAN THE SUDRAS. THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE IS THE HIGHEST STAGE OF HUMAN LIFE BECAUSE OF ITS GOOD QUALITIES. SO ONE CANNOT BE A DEVOTEE UNLESS ONE AT LEAST QUALIFIES AS A BRAHMANA. The devotee is already a brahmana by action. But that is not the end of it. AS REFERRED TO ABOVE, SUCH A BRAHMANA HAS TO BECOME A VAISNAVA IN FACT TO BE ACTUALLY IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL STAGE. A PURE VAISNAVA IS A LIBERATED SOUL AND IS TRANSCENDENTAL EVEN TO THE POSITION OF A BRAHMANA. IN THE MATERIAL STAGE EVEN A BRAHMANA IS ALSO A CONDITIONED SOUL BECAUSE ALTHOUGH IN THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE THE CONCEPTION OF BRAHMAN OR TRANSCENDENCE IS REALIZED, SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUPREME LORD IS LACKING. ONE HAS TO SURPASS THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE AND REACH THE VASUDEVA STAGE TO UNDERSTAND THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD KRSNA.

Divya-jnana means : Divya TRANSCENDENTAL and Jnana means KNOWLEDGE
So UNLESS one is on TRANSCENDENTAL PLATFORM means Uttama Adhikari (Maha Bhagavata) there can NOT be any question of Transcendental Knowledge of ones CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION coming FROM him. THIS EFFECTIVLY DISQUALIFIES KANISTHA AND MADHYAM (MIDDLE STAGE) FROM GIVING DIKSA -- AUTOMATICALLY.

Hrde means heart and Prokasito means revealed just as in prakasa – manifested Krsna becomes manifest in the heart of the Pure Devotee.

 

760711CC.NY Lectures
Prabhupada: Divya-jnana hrde prokasito. What is that divya-jnana? Divya-jnana is that we are all servant of Krsna, and our only business is to serve Krsna. Divya-jnana. This is divya-jnana. It is not difficult at all. Simply we have… We have become servant of so many things--servant of society, servant of community, servant of country, servant of wife, servant of children, servant of dog and so many. “Now let me become servant of Krsna.” This is divya-jnana. Diksa. Diksa means from this divya-jnana. That is di. And ksa means ksapayati, expands.

When at the stage of Madhyama Adhikari one is RECEPIENT of THAT Diksa in the HEART from SRILA PRABHUPADA he becomes a SERVANT OF KRSNA. He relishes a particular mellow (Rasa) of his relationship with Krsna. This point HE SEES KRSNA and HIS RELATIONSHIP (svarupa) is established. So it is not so CHEAP to be Diksa guru.

 

Madhya 8.83 Talks Between Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Ramananda Raya
The purport in presenting this verse necessitates explaining the comparative positions of the transcendental mellows known as santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya. All these rasas, or mellows, are situated on the transcendental platform. Pure devotees take shelter of one of them and thus progress in spiritual life. Actually one can take shelter of such spiritual mellows only when one is completely uncontaminated by material attachment. When one is completely free from material attachment, the feelings of the transcendental mellows are awakened in the heart of the devotee. That is svarupa-siddhi, the perfection of one’s eternal relationship with the Supreme Lord. Svarupa-siddhi, the eternal relationship with the Supreme Lord, may be situated in one of the transcendental mellows.

 

Note: When Krsna is TRANSFERRED FROM Pure devotees HEART to another Pure devotee then there is DIKSA. Divya jnana revealtion of ones CONSTITUTIONAL positon Svarupa is UNDERSTOOD. This may take many many many births -- NOT so cheap.

SB 10.2.18 P Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb
As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was transferred from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by diksa, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. Unless one is initiated by the right person, who always carries within his heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the power to carry the Supreme Godhead within the core of one’s own heart.

 

NoI 5
A madhyama-adhikari has received spiritual initiation from the spiritual master and has been fully engaged by him in the transcendental loving service of the Lord.

 

Antya 4.192 T Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri
diksa-kale bhakta kare atma-samarpana
sei-kale krsna tare kare atma-sama
TRANSLATION
“At the time of initiation, when a devotee fully surrenders unto the service of the Lord, Krsna accepts him to be as good as Himself.

TEXT 193
sei deha kare tara cid-ananda-maya
aprakrta-dehe tanra carana bhajaya
TRANSLATION
“When the devotee’s body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the devotee, in that transcendental body, renders service to the lotus feet of the Lord.

TEXT 194
martyo yada tyakta-samasta-karma
niveditatma vicikirsito me
tadamrtatvam pratipadyamano
mayatma-bhuyaya ca kalpate vai
TRANSLATION
” ‘The living entity who is subjected to birth and death, when he gives up all material activities dedicating his life to Me for executing My order, and thus acts according to My direction, at that time he reaches the platform of immortality, and becomes fit to enjoy the spiritual bliss of exchange of loving mellows with Me.’

PURPORT
This is a quotation from Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.29.34). At the time of initiation, a devotee gives up all his material conceptions. Therefore, being in touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is situated on the transcendental platform. Thus having attained knowledge and the spiritual platform, he always engages in the service of the spiritual body of Krsna. When one is freed from material connections in this way, his body immediately becomes spiritual, and Krsna accepts His service. However, Krsna does not accept anything from a person with a material conception of life. When a devotee no longer has any desire for material sense gratification, in his spiritual identity he engages in the service of the Lord, for his dormant spiritual consciousness awakens. This awakening of spiritual consciousness makes his body spiritual, and thus he becomes fit to render service to the Lord. Karmis may consider the body of a devotee material, but factually it is not, for a devotee has no conception of material enjoyment. If one thinks that the body of a pure devotee is material, he is an offender, for that is a vaisnava-aparadha. In this connection one should consult Srila Sanatana Gosvami’s Brhad-bhagavatamrta (1.3.45 and 2.3.139).

 

Note: It is SUCCESSION MEANS to SUCCEED:
SB 3.29.17 P Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila
In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. Acaryopasanam: one should worship an acarya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. The spiritual master must be in the disciplic succession from Krsna. The predecessors of the spiritual master are his spiritual master, his grand spiritual master, his great-grand spiritual master and so on, who form the disciplic succession of acaryas.

 

NOTE: It is ONLY ACARYA that can give DIKSA because even in NOD this is stated REGARDING ACCEPTING INITIATION from the spiritual master it refers to SB 11.17.27 which is ACARYA.

Nectar of Devotion 7 -- Evidence Regarding Devotional Principles

REGARDING ACCEPTING INITIATION from the spiritual master, in the Eleventh Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Seventeenth Chapter, verse 27, it is stated by Lord Krsna, “My dear Uddhava, the spiritual master must be accepted not only as My representative, but as My very self. He must never be considered on the same level with an ordinary human being. One should never be envious of the spiritual master, as one may be envious of an ordinary man. The spiritual master should always be seen as the representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and by serving the spiritual master one is able to serve all the demigods.”

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.7.15 Purport -- Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati:

“By the mercy of the spiritual master one is benedicted by the mercy of Krsna. Without the grace of the spiritual master, one cannot make any advancement.” A disciple should never be a hypocrite or be unfaithful to his spiritual master. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.17.27), THE SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ALSO CALLED ACARYA. Acaryam mam vijaniyan: the Supreme Personality of Godhead says that one should respect the spiritual master, accepting him as the Lord Himself. Navamanyeta karhicit: one should not disrespect the acarya at any time. Na martya-buddhyasuyeta: one should never think the acarya an ordinary person. Familiarity sometimes breeds contempt, but one should be very careful in one’s dealings with the acarya. Agadha-dhisanam dvijam: the acarya is a perfect brahmana and has unlimited intelligence in guiding the activities of his disciple.

 

Note:Divya means Transcendental so HOW can a person who is NOT on Transcendental Knowledge platform give Transcendental Knowledge (Krsna) to another?

Even a Madhyama Adhikari is MIDWAY. Only Uttama Adhikari is Transcendental.

‘uttama-adhikari’ sei taraye samsara(Cc. Madhya 22.65)

Uttama Adhikari delivers by definition.

When Krsna is TRANSFERRED to your HEART from Srila Prabhupada this is DIKSA your sinful activities are VANQUISHED because you SEE Krsna and YOUR relationship (Svarupa) is established with Krsna.

 

Note: ONE INITIATOR Srila Prabhupda.There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, but the initiator spiritual master is one.

KB 80 The Meeting of Lord Krsna with Sudama Brahmana
Our next spiritual master is he who initiates us into transcendental knowledge, and he is to be worshiped as much as I am. The spiritual master may be more than one. The spiritual master who instructs the disciples about spiritual matters is called siksa-guru, and the spiritual master who initiates the disciple is called diksa-guru. Both of them are My representatives. There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, but the initiator spiritual master is one.

 

75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa:
The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am in the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.

 

Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12/3/1968

I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and all the members of the Society, they’re supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually.

 

 

Furthermore, here is my reply to Dusyanta Dasa which shows clearly that VAPU is NOT necessary and since Rocana Prabhu is Vapuvadi ALSO this will point his ERROR in understanding that VAPU (Physical form) of Srila Prabhupada is NOT necessary to TRANSMIT Diksa (DIVYA JNANA):

 

Duysanta dasa: The ritviks pretend to have a Diksa relationship with Srila Prabhupada after He has disappeared where as Srila Prabhupada has instructed to serve His vani after he has disappeared, its an eternal constant. So if you did not serve Srila Prabhupada’s vapuh how can you have a Diksa relationship????Diksa is a personal relationship with a Diksa Guru not with a Book.

 

Mahesh: This is another concoction from your Vapuvadi camp. WHERE does Srila Prabhupada say in his books that VAPU (physical form) is requirement for TRANSMISSION of Divya Jnana(Diksa)? Go on prove it Prabhu – we want evidence from Srila Prabhupada’s books ONLY.

 

SB 2.9.8 P Answers by Citing the Lord’ s Version
The potency of transcendental sound is never minimized because the vibrator is apparently absent.

Note:In any case what the Vapuvadi camp got was FORMALITY INITIATION which Srila Prabhupada states is “That is not very important thing”. But the Vapuvadi camp want to make it that THIS is the main thing.

761016iv.cha Conversations
Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) …knowledge. INITIATION IS FORMALITY. JUST LIKE YOU GO TO A SCHOOL FOR KNOWLEDGE, AND ADMISSION IS FORMALITY. THAT IS NOT VERY IMPORTANT THING.

 

SB 4.8.54 P Dhruva Maharaja Leaves Home for the Forest
Srimad Viraraghava Acarya, an acarya in the disciplic succession of the Ramanuja-sampradaya, has remarked in his commentary that candalas, or conditioned souls who are born in lower than sudra families, can also be initiated according to circumstances. THE FORMALITIES MAY BE SLIGHTLY CHANGED HERE AND THERE TO MAKE THEM VAISNAVAS.

 

Note: another thing is this FORMALITY INITIATION (1st and 2nd initiation) was conducted by representatives in many cases. So Srila Prabhupada was NOT EVEN at each and every place for fire sacrifice and name giving. Not only that BUT even the Gayatri Mantra was given in Tape and the instruction was given t o Temple Presidents.

 

Duysanta dasa: The relationship with Lord Krsna in His Bhagavad-Gita form is Shiksa Guru not Diksa Guru. So after Srila Prabhupada disappeared He is only available in His Vani form , His Book form as Shiksa Guru.You dont have a Diksa Guru relationship after the disappearance.

 

Mahesh: So now YOU Vapuvadi camp must hunt for another Diksa guru according to your OWN statement Srila Prabhupada disappeared: “So after Srila Prabhupada disappeared He is only available in His Vani form , His Book form as Shiksa Guru.You dont have a Diksa Guru relationship after the disappearance.” These Vapuvadis have ZERO level of understanding on DIKSA.

 

Duysanta dasa: All you all did was to quote what the PROCESS of Diksa is-no problem. But what about your Diksa relationship serving Vapuh. When you serve Vani its Shiksa relationship. You have mixed up the types of relationships with the different Gurus when they are in their vapuh and when they are in their Vani.
Where does it say Shiksa Gurus dont take sins?
What is the point in being so judgemental and agressive ,how is that a Vaisnava quality or are you just conditioned soul yourselves?Try to be more cool, better to have a cool head.

 

Mahesh: That is your concocted opinion from Vapuvadi camp. You have to prove that Srila Prabhupada’s physically presence( Vapu) is required to give Diksa. Prove it from Srila Prabhupada’s books.

 

Adi 1.99 The Spiritual Masters
One of the bhagavatas is the great scripture Srimad-Bhagavatam, and the other is the pure devotee absorbed in the mellows of loving devotion.

 

Adi 1.100 The Spiritual Masters
Through the actions of THESE TWO BHAGAVATAS THE LORD INSTILLS THE MELLOWS OF TRANSCENDENTAL LOVING SERVICE INTO THE HEART OF A LIVING BEING, and thus the Lord, in the heart of His devotee, comes under the control of the devotee’s love.

Note:Does it say VAPU is the requirement – NO! Vapuvadis have CONCOCTED you need VAPU for transmission of DIKSA

 

SB 1.7.22 P The Son of Drona Punished
The spiritual master, BY HIS WORDS, CAN PENETRATE INTO THE HEART OF THE SUFFERING PERSON AND INJECT KNOWLEDGE TRANSCENDENTAL, which alone can extinguish the fire of material existence.

 

Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.

 

690113LE.LA Lectures
Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na… Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man’s body, this is denied in the sastras. SO ALTHOUGH A PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT PRESENT, THE VIBRATION SHOULD BE ACCEPTED AS THE PRESENCE OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, VIBRATION. WHAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, THAT IS LIVING.

 

Note: It is FACTUALLY Srila Prabhupada who CONSTANTLY INSTRUCTS us through his books , tapes, cds. “becomes his initiating spiritual master later on.” indicates the position of Srila Prabhupada as the INITIATOR.

 

Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
Generally a spiritual master who CONSTANTLY INSTRUCTS a disciple in spiritual science becomes his initiating spiritual master later on.

 

Note: Why the Vapuvadis can NOT grasp that there is no requirement for Srila Prabhupada’s physical presence to transmit diksa is because they are in mode of IGNORANCE(TAMO GUNA):

 

740615rc.par Conversations
Yogesvara: “Is there some, any qualities, in the sense that some people have more receptivity towards the divine than other people?”
Prabhupada: Yes. That I explained, sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna. Those who are in sattva-guna, they can understand easily. Those who are in rajo-guna, they have got difficulty. AND THOSE WHO ARE IN TAMO-GUNA, THEY CANNOT.

 

72-12-14. Letter: Tusta Krsna
Next you ask if I am present in my picture and form? Yes. In form as well as in teachings. To carry out the teachings of guru is more important than to worship the form, but none of them should be neglected. Form is called vapu and teachings is called vani. Both should be worshiped. Vani is MORE important than vapu.

 

 

 

EVEN A SLIGHT COMMON-SENSE CAN TELL YOU THAT (DIKSA) DIVYA (TRANSCENDENTAL) JNANA CAN ONLY COME FROM TRANSCENDENTAL PERSON. Kanistha is NOT on TRANSCENDENTAL platform. Madhyama is MIDWAY and Uttama Adhikari is TRANSCENDENTAL BY DEFINITION:

 

661121BG.NY Lectures
And uttamam. Uttamam means “which is transcendental.” Ut means “trans-,” and tama means “darkness.” So uttama means “the knowledge which is beyond this material darkness.” This material world is called darkness, and when the knowledge surpasses this material world, material knowledge, that is really called uttama.

 

760420BG.MEL Lectures
Pavitram idam uttamam. Uttamam. Ut mean udgata, transcendental, and tama means this material world, darkness.

 

“We request you to chant HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAMA HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA HARE HARE, and your life will be sublime.”