Prabhupadanugas Germany

Nama-Hatta Mathias Sabji Germany

Srimad-Bhagavatam Original Edition PDF Download

Madhudvisa dasa, Krishna.org: Once it was possible to find copies of original editions of Srila Prabhupada’s Srimad-Bhagavatams in second-hand book stores and on internet book websites but now the original editions of Srimad-Bhagavatam have become very difficult to find anywhere. So there is an urgent need to preserve these valuable books for future generations.
We see the BBT making thousands of unauthorized changes to so many of Srila Prabhupada’s books in this way completely destroying the authority of the books. Srila Prabhupada’s Srimad-Bhagavatam has remained relatively free from such changes for many years but now, with the release of the BBT Folio 2012 edition, we see the BBT have now produced a new and “updated” version of Srila Prabhupada’s Srimad-Bhagavatam complete with thousands of unauthorized changes and what the BBT consider are ‘improvements…’ Now they are even changing Prabhupada’s words in the Folio to what they think Prabhupada should have said…

The BBT are determined to change Prabhupada’s books. They have not heard the outcry from the devotees about their unauthorized changes to Bhagavad-gita, Krsna Book and Sri Caitanya-caritamrta. They have not leaned from their mistakes, on the contrary according to one of the main BBT editors in recent years they have given us new, “improved”, revised editions of Srila Prabhupada’s Nectar of Instruction, Beyond Birth and Death and Perfection of Yoga and now they also have a new version of Srimad-Bhagavatam. I do not know if they have actually printed this new unauthorized edition of Srimad-Bhagavatam but it is included in the 2012 release of the Folio Infobase.
It is essential that we at least preserve the original teachings of Srila Prabhupada for future generations so as followers of Srila Prabhupada we all have to take this responsibility very seriously. At least we can not fail in handing on in tact and unchanged the original teachings of Srila Prabhupada to future generations. That is the least we can do for Srila Prabhupada.
You will find links below to PDF files that contain actual scans of original editions of Srila Prabhupada’s Srimad-Bhagavatam. Some covers are missing and they will be added when they are available, but otherwise you will find the complete book including all the original color plates. These are large files (500 – 1000 megabytes) because they contain actual scans of the original book pages. So it is an exact electronic copy of the original volumes of Srila Prabhupada’s Srimad-Bhagavatam.
So if your internet connection allows you please download these PDF files so you have the original first-edition of Srila Prabhupada’s Srimad-Bhagavatam, at least in electronic format.
Srimad-Bhagavatam First Canto Volume 1 (1972) [713 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam First Canto Volume 2 (1972) [508 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam First Canto Volume 3 (1972) [845 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Second Canto Volumes 1 & 2?? (1972) [1,100 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Third Canto Volume 1 (1972) [581 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Third Canto Volume 2 (1974) [609 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Third Canto Volume 3 (1974) [579 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Third Canto Volume 4 (1974) [708 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Forth Canto Volume 1 (1972) [587 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Forth Canto Volume 2 (1972) [650 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Forth Canto Volume 3 (1972) [555 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Forth Canto Volume 4 (1972) [497 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Fifth Canto Volume 1 (1975) [642 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Fifth Canto Volume 2 (1975) [591 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Sixth Canto Volume 1 (1975) [422 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Sixth Canto Volume 2 (1975) [561 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Sixth Canto Volume 3 (1976) [559MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Seventh Canto Volume 1  (1976) [604 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Seventh Canto Volume 2 (1976) [700 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Seventh Canto Volume 3 (1976) [613 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Eighth Canto Volume 1 (1976) [516 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Eighth Canto Volume 2 (1976) [551 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Eighth Canto Volume 3 (1976) [336 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Ninth Canto Volume 1 (1977) [389 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Ninth Canto Volume 2 (1977) [388 MB]
Srimad-Bhagavatam Ninth Canto Volume 3 (1977) [382 MB]

Recording of Timings Using Keyboard Fully Implemented (Finally!)

http://causelessmercy.com/

Dear Prabhus, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories
to Srila Prabhupada!

For the past several months, I've been recording the timings for Srila
Prabhupada's SRT subtitle files (Go to <http://causelessmercy.com/a/?AK=Dn>
and click the "Play (P)" button to see/hear a short example.) using a
Microsoft Sidewinder X5 6 button wireless "gaming" mouse with the extra
buttons programmed as <Enter> (Record a timing.), 1 (Make the timing a
tenth of a second sooner.) and 3 (Make the timing a tenth of a second
later.). Therefore, I wasn't very motivated to facilitate those who wanted
to record the timings using their computer's keyboard or numeric keypad.
The problem was that the alert messages were causing the window to lose
focus, so the "hotkeys" would no longer work until the window was clicked.
Very annoying! Call it laziness, stupidity or shortsightedness, the result
was that it never got done (until now).

"Better late than never."

From <http://causelessmercy.com/w/>:

 *On the audio playing web pages in the
Lectures/Conversations<http://causelessmercy.com/a/>section, if you
click the "Show more (L)" button, you may notice ...
.
.
.
2. ...the newly created "Enter quiet mode" / "Exit quiet mode" button. The
purpose of "quiet mode" is to facilitate the recording of the subtitle
timings using a keyboard or numeric keypad. This is accomplished by
changing the associated alert messages to unobtrusive popup messages. When
navigating to a different audio playing web page, the "quiet mode" setting
is preserved. Therefore, there is no need to click "Enter quiet mode" or
"Exit quiet mode" again*.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa <http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi>, <
http://causelessmercy.com/>, <http://rtvik.com/>, <http://pratyatosa.com/>,
<http://feedacow.com/>, <http://llbest.com/>

"You will live forever in your books and will never die!"

Impossible is a Word Found in the Fool's Dictionary

 

..While walking on Venice Beach, Srila Prabhupada delivered an extraordinary ultimatum. Surrounded by devotees, he walked along, poking the sand softly with his cane. “These seventeen volumes unpublished,” he began, “are a great problem for our movement.”

“Yes, Prabhupada,” Ramesvara responded, attentive and concerned. The other devotees also nodded, commiserating. Something must be done.

“Yes,” Prabhupada continued, “they must be published immediately.”

“Yes, Prabhupada,” Ramesvara replied obediently.

“So I think they can be printed in two months,” Srila Prabhupada said conclusively.
 

Ramesvara wasn’t sure he had heard correctly. The Press had only just opened. The artists didn’t even have the lights in their room. Two months was illogical, impossible. Now was the moment to tell Srila Prabhupada the plan for increased production. Ramesvara stepped closer.

“Srila Prabhupada,” he began, “we’ve been meeting about this, and now that the Press is finally here and established, I think we can increase production four times. We think that now we can go from producing one book every four months to producing one of your books every month.” Now both Ramesvara and Radhavallabha were walking together beside Srila Prabhupada, with Tamala Krishna Goswami and Brahmananda Swami walking on his other side.

“One book every month,” Srila Prabhupada said, as if thinking out loud and considering it. “That means over one year. It is not fast enough.” The other devotees looked over at Ramesvara and Radhavallabha, who glanced at each other.

“You have to do all the books in two months’ time,” Srila Prabhupada said again. They had clearly heard it this time, and the two managers were stunned in disbelief.

“Srila Prabhupada,” Ramesvara said, “I think that’s impossible. Maybe we can go faster . . .”

Srila Prabhupada suddenly stopped walking. Planting his cane firmly in the sand, he turned to Ramesvara and said, without anger but very gravely, “Impossible is a word found in the fool’s dictionary..."

Devotee Doesn't Want Anything - Lecture by Srila Prabhupada

“Varnashrama System Must Be Introduced”

“Prabhupada: Vaishnava is not so easy. The varnashrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaishnava. It is not so easy to become Vaishnava.
Hari-sauri: No, it’s not a cheap thing.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaishnava, to become Vaishnava, is not so easy. If Vaishnava, to become Vaishnava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyasa is for the highest qualified brahmana. And simply by dressing like a Vaishnava, that is… fall down. . . . .”
Room Conversation, February 14, 1977, Mayapur:

Don't imitate great personality,its dangerous you will fall down

Conversations, May 31, 1974, Geneva               
You cannot expect that your audience should be all highly brain. No. Preaching is required because they have no brain. Therefore your duty is to tolerate all difficulties and bring them to the sense of brain. Not that - "These people are animals; we shall not mix with them." Then you have no missionary activities. Then you sit down in a place and chant Hare Krishna. Then don't open centers. That is also dangerous. If we imitate Haridasa Thakura, "Let us all chant and do nothing," then the maya, the women, they are very expert. They could not conquer over Haridasa Thakura, but she'll conquer upon you. And become victim. Therefore we have to be active. We cannot imitate Haridasa. Anyone who has imitated the Haridasa Thakura, he has fallen down. He has fallen. He must fall down because imitating the highest personality, for which he is not fit. Therefore he's going to fall down. When by preaching, by chanting, we will be expert, then it is possible.

IRM: Danavir Invents A New Philosophy

by Krishnakant
We present the following as more evidence of the futility of the GBC Gurus in even attempting to try and defeat the IRM’s position.

Recently HH Danavir Goswami has attempted to deconstruct the so-called ‘Ritvik’ position in an article he has written titled ‘Diksa or Ritvik’, which was published on CHAKRA. Unfortunately rather than throw any light on this issue, he has simply repeated the standard technique used by the GBC when dealing with the ‘ritvik’ issue. This is to invent a philosophy which is not actually put forward by IRM, but is easy to defeat, and to then defeat it and claim that what they have defeated is ‘what the ritviks say’. In this way they are able to manufacture a false ‘victory’. This is known as defeating a ‘straw man’ argument, where being unable to defeat the actual arguments presented by one’s opponent, one instead addresses *other* arguments that can be defeated, and then falsely attributes these now defeated arguments as belonging to one’s opponent.

That this was Danavir Maharaja’s aim can be evidenced just by the nonsensical title he has given his article – ‘Diksa or Ritvik’? – where he posits that ‘Diksa’ and ‘Ritvik’ are alternatives to each other. In fact the use of ritvik priests is simply part and parcel of the Diksa process itself.
Thus Danavir’s title is therefore actually the same as “Diksa or Diksa”! ?

Thus from the very start we are given a glimpse of the nonsense which is about to follow. We will now detail these inherent fallacies present in Maharaja’s paper. Statements from Maharaja’s paper shall be boxed in speech marks thus “”, with our comments following underneath, with maharaja referred to as the ‘author’ throughout. We will demonstrate conclusively that far from ‘defeating’ the IRM position, Maharaja can not even figure out *what* it is!

We prove below, that from start to finish, in his paper, Danavir Maharaja simply concocted a new philosophy which he calls ‘ritvik’, so that he could defeat it. Indeed as will be seen, there is an error in every single paragraph of Maharaja’s paper.

1) “Nevertheless, our attempt to eliminate the process of Vaisnava diksa (initiation) via a so-called “ritvik” jump must be counted among our most preposterous new propositions to date.”

The process of Vaisnava diksa (initiation) was carried out via the ‘ritvik’ system for many initiations performed in ISKCON during Srila Prabhupada’s time. Thus not only is the IRM not trying to eliminate Vaisnava Diksa via the ‘Ritvik’ system, but it is not even possible to do this, since the use of Ritviks is merely one possible part of the Diksa process. Thus to suggest that Diksa is being eliminated by that which actually allows Diksa to be conducted, ‘must be counted among our most preposterous new propositions to date’!

2) “”Yes,” one may argue, “for philosophical issues that’s true, but the initiation process (diksa) is a managerial detail which is subject to alteration according to time, place and circumstance.” To the contrary, diksa is not a managerial detail, but a solid Vaisnava principle. “

The IRM does not argue that Diksa is a managerial detail.
It states that it is a ‘solid vaisnava principle’.

3) “Wily ritvik advocates try to prove diksa gurus obsolete because, according to them, the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya is a “siksa line,” not a “diksa line.”

Again this is not an argument put forward by the IRM.

4) “There is no Vaisnava acarya who will say that it is not necessary to take initiation from a bonafide spiritual master.”

The IRM do not say this either.

5) “Siksa-line proponents point out that Srila Vyasadeva was not the diksa guru of Madhvacarya, and that other spiritual masters listed in our disciplic succession were not initiated by the person whose name appears directly above theirs.”

Maybe they do. But we thought Maharaja was supposed to be addressing the arguments of the ‘Ritvik’ proponents, not ‘siksa-line’ proponents, whoever they are.

6) “In other words, the attempt of an initiated disciple to find a siksa guru who surpasses or circumvents one’s diksa guru is offensive and such rascaldom will be disastrous to one’s spiritual life.”

What an ‘initiated’ disciple may or may not attempt to do cannot possibly have any relevance to the subject in hand, for the use of ‘ritviks’ relates to those who need initiation, not those who have already received it.

7) “By saying that Srila Prabhupada’s disciples should not become gurus, the ritvik proponents spoil everything because this is the method Lord Krishna has arranged for continuing his teachings down through the ages.”

Of course the IRM do not say this. Everyone in ISKCON must become a Guru. We only state that for *Diksa*, one must follow the Ritvik system set up by Srila Prabhupada.

8) “This brings us to the real crux of the issue. Some say that none of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples should become a spiritual master because none of them are uttama adhikaris.”

But this ‘some’ does not include the IRM.

9) “Fuelled by illusion and envy, the subliminal intention of the ritvik theory is to eliminate gurus and disciples altogether as most so-called Christian denominations have done.”

Since the IRM position is *based* on accepting Srila Prabhupada as the only Guru initiating disciples, it cannot possibly be about eliminating both Gurus and disciples.

10) “The following is an excerpt from a Vyasa-puja lecture delivered by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Maharaja. Read it and you’ll understand why Vaisnavas cannot abolish the process of gurus accepting disciples.”

And we have seen no one is attempting to abolish the process of Gurus accepting disciples. The GBC however have abolished the process of Srila Prabhuada accepting disciples, as he himself authorised for ISKCON via the July 9th directive.

11) “Ritvik theory encourages lower standards by propounding that it isn’t possible to attain the high position of becoming a bonafide spiritual master.”

It does not. Indeed we state the very opposite in ‘The Final Order‘.

12) “It is incorrect to think that only a nitya-siddha saktyavesa avatara is eligible to become a bonafide spiritual master.”

Again this concept has never been put forward by the IRM.

13) “Ritvik theory propounds changing the parampara system of initiation, and ushers in the thinking that there is no need for initiation.”

Again the IRM never says this. Indeed its whole position is based on the need for initiation – albeit from Srila Prabhupada.

14) “In effect, eliminating the diksa guru is tantamount to spiritual abortion.”

This is correct, and is exactly what the GBC did when they eliminated the Diksa Guru of ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada, by replacing him with themselves.

15) “By trying to eliminate the diksa guru, ritvik proponents ignore Srila Prabhupada’s emphasis on this point.”

As already demonstrated, the ones who have factually eliminated the Diksa Guru, is the GBC, who eliminated Srila Prabhupada as the Diksa for ISKCON.

16) “The present attempt to propound a new theory of ritvik initiations is already mischievous enough but by trying to attribute the concoction to His Divine Grace through twisting his words is nothing less than outrageous.”

Since the use of Ritviks to assist in Diksa ceremonies was set up and propounded by Srila Prabhupada, with devotees being authorised to chant on initiates beads, perform the fire yajna, and eventually accept the disciples and grant spiritual names on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, it is neither ‘new’, nor a ‘theory’.

17) “Embracing ritvik theory means, essentially, that one considers Srila Prabhupada so unfortunate that he could not train even one disciple to carry on the disciplic succession.”

No. ‘The Final Order’ states the opposite.
Srila Prabhupada also stated that:

“Actually amongst my godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya.” 
(Letter to Rupunuga, 28/4/74)

By the author’s warped logic, we would also need to then speculate that Srila Prabhupada considered Srila Bhaktisidhanta so unfortunate that he could not even train two disciples to carry on the disciplic succession.

18) “In fact, their newest word-juggling leader pleads that when Srila Prabhupada says “granddisciple” he doesn’t really mean the disciple of his disciple.”

No, we never say this. We admit as stated on page 25 of “The Final Order“, that Srila Prabhupada *is* speaking of Grand-disciples, but that they will only emerge if and when Srila Prabhupada orders his disciples to become Gurus:

‘His Grand-disciple …*When I order* you become guru, he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple.’
(May 28th, 1977, Room Conversation)

19) “Instead, intending to rid the world of gurus, the juggler wants to make Srila Prabhupada the initiating spiritual master and the grand spiritual master at the same time. Must we accept this nonsense?”

On the contrary it is the GBC who say that the new Diksa Gurus are simultaneously the spiritual master and Grand-spiritual master:

Tamal Krishna:	No. He is asking that these ritvik acaryas, they are officiating, giving diksa, there.. the people who they give diksa to, whose disciples are they?
Srila Prabhupada:	They are his disciples.
Tamal Krishna	They are his disciples.
Srila Prabhupada:	Who is initiating … his grand-disciple …

In the above the GBC insist that the word ‘his‘ refers to Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. This would mean that they would simultaneously have both ‘disciples’ and ‘grand-disciples’:

Srila Prabhupada:

They are *his* disciples … Who is initiating … *his* grand-disciple …

And by the way, the official GBC transcript of the appointment tape as given in 1985 and as given on the official ISKCON.COM website has the correct transcript of ‘his disciple‘, and not ‘he is grand-disciple‘, as given by the author.

20) “Even though the ritvik proponents wish they could just eliminate the word “granddisciple,” it’s not so easy because there are other annoying words like “grand spiritual master” and “great-grand spiritual master” and so on in the Vaisnava family tree. [...] Accepting rtvik theory means we’ll have to throw out Srila Prabhupada’s books, lectures, conversations and letters so there won’t be any traces of these troublesome words to contend with.”

As demonstrated, the IRM make no attempt to eliminate the word ‘grand-disciple’. On the contrary it is the GBC who attempt to eliminate the words ‘when I order’ on which the existence of grand-disciples is conditional.

21) “Ritvik theory makes it convenient for so-called disciples to maintain an immoral position without the intervention of a physically present guru. This is much like so-called Christians who say that Jesus is in their heart and he died for their sins and therefore they are saved.”

The author himself has maintained a position without the ‘intervention of a physically present guru’ for 23 years now.

22) “Ritvik theory is based on faultfinding (hati mata) rather than scriptural evidence. For example the recent “poison theory” also emanated from the ritvik proponents.”

Incorrect. Please note that some of key movers in bringing the poison issue to light, and pushing it:

Isa Das, Mahabhuddi Das, Balavanta Das, Naveen Krishna Das, Madhusevita Das (who as GBC chairman authorised Balavanta’s investigation in 1997), Puru Das, Rocana Das etc. etc., have absolutely nothing to do with the IRM.

Indeed some of them are Narayana Maharaja supporters, and though some ‘ritviks’ did get involved, the whole thing was kick-started mainly by the tapes presented by Isa Das, a prominent follower of Narayana Maharaja.

Indeed the GBC have relied on the IRM’s paper on the poison issue in order to try and rebut the ‘poison theory’, via their official book on the subject.

23) “While present, Srila Prabhupada personally considered, acknowledged and accepted or rejected each new candidate. It is odd then to expect him, after his departure, to accept new disciples impersonally by the mere imagination of so-called rtvik chanellers, who are not even recognized members within ISKCON.”

This is incorrect. After July 7th, 1977, this responsibility was delegated entirely to the Ritviks he had appointed:

Srila Prabhupada:	So without waiting for me, wherever you consider it is right… That will depend on discretion.
Tamala Krishna:	On discretion.
Srila Prabhupada:	Yes.
Tamala Krishna:	That’s for first and second initiations.
Srila Prabhupada:	Hm.

(Conversation, July 7th, 1977)

This is the system that was set up by Srila Prabhupada to be in place for ISKCON, so as to specifically not require his physical presence.

24) “If it were so easy to jump up the ladder and become the direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada, then why couldn’t one just as easily double jump up to become Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati’s direct disciple.”

But this pre-supposes that there is a ‘ladder’ to jump – i.e. the very question under debate. Therefore the author is merely assuming that which needs to be proven. He needs to first demonstrate that Srila Prabhupada ordered his elimination as the Diksa Guru for ISKCON via self-elected disciples. From what we have seen thus far the author has not even come close to addressing this question, less answering it.

25) “Did you know that there is a scriptural injunction for a one-year mutual examination period before taking initiation? Ritvik theory eliminates the mutual testing between guru and disciple. In ritvik theory, the guru has no say in the matter, only the self-appointed ritvik chaneller calls the shots.”

No. This mutual testing was eliminated by Srila Prabhupada himself, who allowed the Temple President to conduct it on his behalf, since Srila Prabhupada did not spend a whole year personally testing any of his disciples. Indeed most were initiated before they had even been in ISKCON for one year. Incidentally this one year mutual examination period is not practised by most of the Gurus in ISKCON today, especially their leading Guru Jayapataka Swami, who flies in and initiates whoever is around. In this way he has amassed thousands of disciples.

26) “What has been the standard system of initiation (diksa) conducted throughout the ages in all bona fide Vaisnava sampradayas, today we neophyte American devotees desire to change.”

Indeed many neophyte American devotees did just this in 1978 when they changed the system of initiation which Srila Prabhupada had left us, whereby he was the spiritual master of ISKCON. Now this has been changed to the current system whereby anyone can be the spiritual master in ISKCON *except* Srila Prabhupada, including those who in the future, and as little as 5 years previously, will/did engage in ‘sex with men, women and children’.

27) “There is an entire lecture given by Srila Prabhupada in which he told his disciples, or rather, insisted that his disciples become gurus. Here’s an excerpt: To become spiritual master is not very difficult thing. You’ll have to become spiritual master. You, all my disciples, everyone should become spiritual master. “I remember hearing this lecture on tape in the seventies and I understood that Srila Prabhupada was training us, his disciples, to carry on the disciplic succession. Not only myself but every devotee that I knew also had the same understanding. I never heard, even once, from any devotee in ISKCON during the period of 1970 to November 1977 that Srila Prabhupada did not expect his disciples to become gurus. Was the whole movement misunderstanding Srila Prabhupada during his physical presence? No, the devotees all understood correctly then, but after Srila Prabhupada’s departure some persons affected by the age of Kali, concocted a new idea, that new devotees should take initiation directly from Srila Prabhupada via ritviks.”

But the entire movement must have misunderstood, because instead of ‘all becoming gurus’, the whole movement, enthusiastically supported by the author, affected by the age of kali, concocted a new idea that new devotees should take initiation in their ‘zone’ only via 11 ‘pure zonal acharyas’. So we know for a fact that the devotees had not ‘all understood correctly’.

28) “Those who cannot accept Srila Prabhupada’s uncompromising teachings will undoubtedly form splinter groups, but the ISKCON caravan should remain firmly fixed and pure in pursuing the path of the mahajanas.”

Indeed it is ISKCON that is ‘polarised and disintegrating’ as admitted by the GBC’s own chairman:

“How will we deal with our polarized and disintegrating society.”
(Ravindra Svarupa, GBC Chairman, GBC Com, May 2000)

29) “The numerous references where Srila Prabhupada definitively states his desire and that of the disciplic succession for continuing the initiation process are so crystal clear that it is dumbfounding to see them being contended. It is another of Srila Prabhupada’s unlimited glories that he reiterated the same instruction so many times, each time etching the message deeper into the stone foundation pillars of ISKCON. Thus he is Founder-acarya because he established the immovable laws of the Society.”

The numerous references where Srila Prabhupada definitively states his desire for continuing the initiation process via the signed directive of the July 9th directive sent out to every Temple and GBC, the conversation of July 19th, and the conversation on October 18th, are so crystal clear that it is dumbfounding to see them being contended.

30) “Ritvik theory disregards Srila Prabhupada’s instructions by opposing ISKCON and the GBC.”

On the contrary, the GBC disregard Srila Prabhupada’s instructions to implement the July 9th directive.

31) “Ritvik theory seeks to deprive new devotees the opportunity of following the parampara properly and receiving real initiation.”

On the contrary the GBC seeks to deprive new devotees the opportunity of following the parampara and receiving real initiation from Srila Prabhupada, the current acarya of the disciplic succession.

32) “It is devious to try to misinterpret Srila Prabhupada’s instructions to mean that his disciples should not become gurus. Consider for yourself the following:This time I have requested all Nairobi important friends that “Now you take sannyasa and become guru. Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu asked everyone to become guru. amara ajnaya guru hana tara ei desa. You have come to Africa. Now become their guru and deliver them.” “Now, how shall I do it?” Yare dekha tare kaha krsna upadesa: “Simply speak. Don’t become very big upstart. Simply speak what Krishna has done. That’s all. You become guru.” (Lecture: December 20, 1975)”

However this quote, along with the others presented by the author, is given in the present tense. That is, Srila Prabhupada is asking his disciples to do it there and then:

“*Now* become their guru and deliver them.”

That is, they are not asked to wait until Srila Prabhupada departs before taking up this responsibility. Thus by the ‘law of disciplic succession’ which the author also quotes, Srila Prabhupada could not possibly be speaking about his disciples acting as Diksa Gurus.

33) “So Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, amara ajnaya guru hana tara ei desa yare dekha, tare kaha, ‘krsna’-upadesa [...] No, it is those who oppose Srila Prabhupada’s instruction to become a bonafide spiritual master who are in error.”

It is those who oppose Srila Prabhupada’s instructions in the purports to the above verse to:

“best not to accept *any*disciples”

who are in error.

34) “Ritvik theory seeks to deprive Srila Prabhupada’s disciples the chance of fulfilling Lord Caitanya’s order to become gurus (guru haya).”

On the contrary the GBC does not fulfil Lord Caitanya’s order to become Gurus (guru haya) by deliberately disobeying the ‘best not to accept any disciples’ part. The IRM meanwhile encourages everyone to become a Guru on Srila Prabhupada’s behalf, and to preach his glories

35) “Since whatever he had to speak, he spoke in his books, let us then try to understand what’s in Srila Prabhupada’s books in regards to his disciples becoming diksa gurus”

In Srila Prabhupada’s books, Srila Prabhupada also speaks of the specific authorisation needed from one’s spiritual master in order to take up the role of Diksa Guru:

“One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorised by his predecessor spiritual master.
This is called diksa-vidhana.”
(S.B. 4.8.54, purport)

• Where is the author’s authorisation from Srila Prabhupada to take up the role of Diksa Guru?

The GBC have never produced any authorisation from Srila Prabhupada to empower them to vote in Diksa Gurus in ISKCON.

36) “Ritvik theory contorts Srila Prabhupada’s words about becoming gurus.”

On the contrary the GBC disobeys Srila Prabhupada words about becoming Gurus, eliminating words such as ‘when I order’, ‘authorised by his predecessor spiritual master’, ‘best not to accept any disciples’etc.
In the case of the phrase ‘authorised by his predecessor spiritual master’, this elimination is literal, as reported here, where Bhakti Caru Swami omitted this phrase from his Bengali translation of the Srimad Bhagavatam.

37) “We can also hear from Srila Narahari Sarakara Thakura about this topic of Vaisnava etiquette: “Just as a faithful son may go out for earning money and subsequently brings to his father the wealth gained, later the son may ask for some allowance from the father and whatever he receives from the father he is entitled to spend for his own enjoyment. Similarly, a disciple may hear some instructions from another advanced Vaisnava but after gaining that good instruction he must bring it and present it to his own spiritual master. After presenting them he should hear the same teachings again from his spiritual master with appropriate instructions.” (Sri Krishna Bhajanamrta 48)”

This is an example of what HH Hrdyananda Maharaja calls ‘self-referential incoherence’, for this very instruction of Narahari Sarakara Thakura, as well as all the other statements that the GBC are fond of quoting from sources other than Srila Prabhupada, have not themselves been brought to, and heard again from, our ‘own spiritual master’, Srila Prabhupada.

38) “Srila Narahari Sarkara Thakura, the fortieth branch of the Caitanya Tree described in the Caitanya Caritamrta, writes: “If the spiritual master commits a wrongful act breaking Vaisnava regulative principles, then in that case one should, in a solitary place, confront him for his rectification using logic and appropriate conclusions from sadhu, shastra, and guru references, but one is not to give him up.”

However as proven by the words of Srila Narahari Sarkara Thakura quoted by the author above, unless these teachings are first presented to Srila Prabhupada, and then confirmed by hearing them directly from Srila Prabhupada, the author has no business accepting them. ( See Sri Krishna Bhajanamrta 48, by Srila Narahari Sarkara Thakura, quoted above by the author).

39) “In this short paper we are only examining a very few of the faults of the rtvik theory. Actually it is full of unlimited faults because it opposes the Vedic system of disciplic succession.”

As we have seen, the authors’ paper is full of unlimited faults, having not even succeeded in figuring out what it is he is supposed to be answering, though we have been kind enough here to examine only a very few of them.

In summary the moral of the story is that the only way the GBC Gurus will ever defeat the IRM is to defeat what the IRM do NOT say, and then simply imagine that they have defeated the IRM!

Please chant: Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare,
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare, Hare. And be Happy!

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 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxVwV4bbY78&feature=youtu.be

THE NAKED TRUTH ABOUT ISKCON GURU-TATTVA !! MUST READ!!

 Mathias Sabji


In addition to ISKCON’s current guru system not having any order from Srila Prabhupada to justify its existence, the GBC’s official “brain”, the “Sastric Advisory Council” (SAC), has said that the process by which it does authorise gurus, via voting them in, is not based on “guru, sadhu and sastra”:

“Our present system has institutionalized a process of senior devotees voting or offering no-objection to prospective gurus. But we do not find that this institutionalized blessingseeking process is mentioned by guru, sadhu or sastra as the way that one is authorized to become a guru.”
(Balancing the roles of the GBC and the disciple in Guru selection, SAC)

http://gbc.iskcon.org/2012/01/26/balancing-the-roles-of-the-gbc-and-the-disciple-in-guru-selection/

So from every angle, ISKCON’s current guru system is basically a big unauthorised hoax!

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."
( Abraham Lincoln )

The GBC's most recent official handbook on initiation entitled.

"Gurus And Initiation In ISKCON" (to be referred to henceforward as GII) If we return once more to „GII“ we can see that the GBC is highly ambivalent towards the gurus it "authorises".

Whilst acknowledging the rubber-stamping of sampradaya acaryas is bogus (GII, point 6, p.15), the GBC nevertheless, in effect, performs precisely this function every Gaura-Purnima at Mayapur, year after year.
We now have close to a hundred initiating gurus, all anointed with the "no objection" stamp of approval. All these gurus are being worshipped as "saksad hari" ("as good as God") in accordance with the GBC's own directives for disciples (GII, point 8, p.15).


These initiating acaryas are heralded as "current links" to a disciplic succession of maha-bhagavatas stretching back thousands of years to the Supreme Lord Himself:

"Devotees should take shelter of the representatives of Srila Prabhupada who are the "current link" in the disciplic succession." (GII, p. 34)

At the same time however the aspiring disciple is sternly warned that ISKCON approval..."...is not automatically to be taken as a statement about the degree of God-realisation of the approved guru."
(GII, section 2.2, p.9)

Elsewhere we are further cautioned:

"When a devotee is allowed to carry out the "order" of Srila Prabhupada to expand the disciplic succession by initiating new disciples it is not to be taken as a certification or endorsement of his being an "uttama adhikari", "pure devotee", or to having achieved any specific state of realisation." (GII, p.15)

These gurus are not to be worshipped by everyone in the temple, but only by their own disciples in a separate place.
(GII, p.7) - (Pradyumna's acaryadeva definition).

We would venture that it is infelicitous to approve, or "not object" to, the creation of diksa gurus, and simultaneously disavow any blame or responsibility should they deviate. This is what's termed "living in denial" according to modern psychological parlance. We are sure Srila Prabhupada did not intend ISKCON to be a type of lottery, or Russian roulette, where the stake is someone's spiritual life. Perhaps the GBC should refrain from further rubberstamping until they can stand one hundred percent behind those they approve. After all, every one of us stands one hundred percent behind Srila Prabhupada as a bona fide spiritual master; so such consensual recognition of personal qualification is not impossible.


GBC guru ambivalence was recently summed up quite succinctly by
Jayadvaita Swami:

"The word appointed is never used. But there are "candidates for
initiating guru", votes are taken, and those who make it through the procedures become "ISKCON-approved" or "ISKCON-authorised" gurus. To boost your confidence: On one hand the GBC encourages you to be initiated by a bona fide, authorised ISKCON guru and worship him like God. On the other, it has an elaborate system of laws to invoke from time to time when your ISKCON-authorised guru falls down. One might perhaps be forgiven for thinking that for all the laws and resolutions
the role of guru is still a perplexity even for the GBC."
("Where the ritvik People are Right", Jayadvaita Swami, 1996)

But The only type of bona fide diksa guru is an authorised maha-bhagavata!

"The (diksa) guru must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the topmost class."
(C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)

"When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a (diksa) guru and worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a (diksa) guru."
(C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)

"Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master."

Unqualified gurus are also warned:

"One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari."
(The Nectar of Instruction, text 5, purport)

"Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual
Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual
Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance. "
(SP Letter Mukunda 6/10/69)

The requirement for being a diksa, or initiating, guru in ISKCON is not simply that one thinks they have acquired the requisite qualifications to act as guru, but that in addition Srila Prabhupada must also authorized such persons to specifically act in that capacity:

“One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorised by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksa vidhana.”
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.8.54, purport)

The Main-Point is : "who is authorised by his predecessor spiritual
master."!! ( NOT BY GBC)!!

This has put the GBC on the back foot, realizing that it’s not enough
just to “assume” they were supposed to become gurus to “continue the parampara”, but that they also need to demonstrate authorization for the same.

“Our business is to point out who is not a saint.”
(Srila Prabhupada, Morning Walk, April 10th, 1974)

"Mundane votes(GBC 2/3 hand-vote) have no jurisdiction to elect a
Vaisnava acarya. A Vaisnava acarya is self effulgent, and there is no need for any court judgement. A false acarya may try to override a Vaisnava by a High Court decision, but Bhaktivinode Thakura says that he is nothing but a disciple of Kali-yuga. "
(CC (BBT 1975) Madhya 1.220)

NOTE:
"A false acarya may try to override a Vaisnava by a High Court decision, but Bhaktivinode Thakura says that he is nothing but A DISCIPLE OF KALI-YUGA. " !!!!!!

1978 - Guru-by-vote ridiculed:

"You cannot simply elect a person to the post of the most exalted sainthood"
('Notes from the Editor', Back to Godhead #13-01/02, 1978)

"Srila Jiva Gosvami advises that one not accept a spiritual master in terms of hereditary or customary social, and ecclesiastical conventions. "
(CC (BBT 1975) Adi 1.35)

„The GBC is the highest ecclesiastical body guiding ISKCON.“
(Back To Godhead)!!

1986 - Guru-by-vote implemented:

"…any GBC can present a diksa guru candidate before the GBC body. Unless the majority of voting members objects to the nomination, the candidate will be placed on a required one year waiting period…upon majority approval of the body, he may take up the responsibilities of an initiating guru in ISKCON."
(ISKCON GBC Resolution No. 3, March 30th, 1986)

Voting procedures [...] for guru candidate [...] who will be established by the voting members.
(GBC document.)

Voting for guru process [...] by a two third vote of the GBC [...] all
GBCs are candidates for appointment as guru.
(GBC document.)

GBC: Still "electing people to the post of the most exalted sainthood"

According to these quotes and irrefutable evidence, it is also true that the GBC chooses actually diksa gurus!.

This is sadly, but also irrefutable proof that the GBC does not accept the disciplic conclusion !!!!

"...disciplic succession does not always mean that one has to be
initiated officially. Disciplic succession means to accept the disciplic
conclusion."
(SP Letter to Dinesh, 31/10/69)

"Mundane votes ( GBC 2/3 hand-vote) have no jurisdiction to elect a Vaisnava acarya. A Vaisnava acarya is self effulgent, and there is no need for any court judgement. A false acarya may try to override a Vaisnava by a High Court decision, but Bhaktivinode Thakura says that he is nothing but A DISCIPLE OF KALI-YUGA. " !!
(CC (BBT 1975) Madhya 1.220)

“I am the initiator (diksa) guru, and you should be the instructor
(siksa) guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you should actually come to this platform. This I want. “ (Srila Prabhupada Letter, August 4, 1975.)

“If everyone just initiates, then there will only be contradictory
results. As long as it goes on there will only be failure.”
(Prabhupada From Phalguna Krishna Pancami, 1961.)

Iskcon-GBC says : Srila Prabhupada authorized the GBC to sanction and dismiss diksa-gurus in ISKCON ( MYTH)

“One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in disciplic succession who is authorized by his predecessor spiritual master.( not by GBC !!) This is called diksa-vidhana.
(Bhagavad-gita As It Is, 4.8.54, Purport)

NOTE:
The main point in this vers is: " WHO IS AUTHORIZED BY HIS PREDECESSOR SPIRITUAL MASTER "!

“A (diksa) guru can become guru when he is ordered by his
(diksa) guru. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become (diksa) guru.”
(Conversation, Oct. 28, 1975, Nairobi)

“Vallabha Bhaṭṭa wanted to be initiated by Gadādhara Pandita, BUT
GADADHARA PANDIT !!!!refused, saying, ‘The work of acting as a spiritual master is not possible for me. I am completely dependent. My Lord is Gauracandra, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. I cannot do anything independently, without His order.’ ”
(Cc. Antya 7.150,151)

NOTE !!! GADADHARA PANDIT ( RADHA SELF) CAN'T GIVE DIKSA WITHOUT DIRECT ORDER FROM GURU !!!!

"Self-made guru (or GBC 2/3 hand-vote guru ) cannot be (diksa) guru. He must be authorized by the bona fide guru. Then he's guru. This is the fact...Similarly; bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru." (not by GBC !!! )
(Srila Prabhupada - Lecture on Nectar of Devotion, October 31, 1972)

How many of these drowning disciples will wake up and realize that a drowning man cannot save another drowning man? How many will wake up and accept that a spiritual master or a guru in our Brahmā Madhva Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava Sampradaya is NOT someone who has been appointed by the institution like GBC !

"As for your next question, can only a few pure devotees deliver others, anyone, if he is a pure devotee he can deliver others, he can become spiritual master. But unless he on that platform he should not attempt it. Then both of them will to go to hell, like blind men leading the blind." !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[SP Letter to Tusta Kṛṣṇa: Ahmedabad 14 Dec 1972]

WHO FOLLOW DISCIPLES OF KALI YUGA.......GOOD BYE!!

Iskcon-GBC says : A spiritual master may sometimes fall down and become demoniac.( MYTH)

“There is no possibility that a first-class devotee will fall down…”
(Cc. Madhya 22.71, Purport)

“The spiritual master is always considered either one of the
confidential associates of Radharani or a manifested representation of Sri Nityananda.”
(Cc. Adi. 1.46, Purport)

“The spiritual master is not the question of [‘living’ or ‘dead’]… The
spiritual master is eternal–the spiritual master is eternal.” (Lecture,
Oct. 2, 1968, Seattle, WA).

Those deviant gurus being described could never, by definition, have been members of the eternal disciplic succession. Rather, they were non-liberated, self-authorised or GBC rubberstamped 2/3 voted-in gurus and priests posing as initiating acaryas. Bona fide members of the disciplic succession never deviate:

"God is always God,( diksa) Guru is always (diksa) Guru."
(The Science of Self Realisation, chapter 2)

"Well if he is bad, how can he become a (diksa) guru?"
(The Science of Self Realisation, chapter 2)

"The pure devotee is always free from the clutches of Maya and her influence."
(S.B. 5.3.14)

"There is no possibility that a first class devotee will fall down."
(C.c. Madhya, 22.71)

"A spiritual master is always liberated."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter to Tamal Krishna, 21/6/70)

There is not a single example in Srila Prabhupada's books of a formally authorised diksa guru, in our disciplic succession, ever deviating from the path of devotional service. The rejection of Sukracarya is sometimes used to validate the view that acaryas fall down, or can be rejected, but this example is highly misleading since he was never an authorised member of our disciplic succession. Lord Brahma's pastimes with his daughter are sometimes mentioned. Yet it is clearly stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam that these incidents occurred before Lord Brahma
became the head of our sampradaya. Indeed, when the disciple Nitai referred to the pastime as an example of an acarya falling down, Srila Prabhupada became most displeased.

Prabhupada:

Aksayananda: I was recently told by one devotee that the acarya does not have to be a pure devotee. [....]

Prabhupada: Who is that rascal? [...]

Aksayananda: He said it. Nitai said it. He said it in this context. He
said that Lord Brahma is the acarya in the Brahma-sampradaya, but yet he is sometimes afflicted by passion. So therefore he is saying that it appears that the acarya does not have to be a pure devotee. So it does not seem right. [...]

Prabhupada: He manufactured his idea. Therefore he's a rascal. Therefore he's a rascal. Nitai has become an authority? [...] He thought something rascaldom, and he is expressing that. Therefore he is more rascal. These things are going on.
(Morning Walk, Vrindavan, December 10th, 1975)


„The whole situation has been spoiled by these so-called rascal gurus who gives his own opinion. This is our plain declaration: Let any rascal guru come. We can convince him that he is not guru, because he is speaking differently ...!!!!
So guru is one. Guru cannot be two. As soon as you find two opinions of guru, either both of them are rascals, or one is still at least rascal.“
(Lecture: What is a Guru? London, August 22, 1973)

"Prabhupada: "Then so siksa and diksa-guru... A siksa-guru who instructs against the instruction of spiritual, he is not a siksa guru. He is a demon. Siksa-guru, diksa-guru means... Sometimes a diksa-guru is not present always. Therefore one can take learning, instruction, from an advanced devotee. That is called the siksa-guru. Siksa-guru does not mean he is speaking something against the teachings of the diksa-guru/Acarya. He is not a siksa-guru. He is a rascal."
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 17:1-3, 07-04-74, Honolulu )

"The bona fide spiritual master always engages in unalloyed devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
(C.c. Adi, 1.46)

Srila Prabhupada taught that a guru will only fall down if he is not
properly authorised to initiate:

"...sometimes a spiritual master is not properly authorised to initiate and only on his own initiative becomes a spiritual master, he may be carried away by an accumulation of wealth and a large number of disciples."
(Nectar Of Devotion, p116)

When a guru falls down it is conclusive proof that he was never properly authorised by his predecessor acarya.

"A spiritual master is always liberated."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter 21/6/70)

Aindra Prabhu:

"It is not that Srila Prabhupada‘s sankirtana mission precludes the
prospects of pursuing the path of raga, nor is it that legitimate
institutional leadership is the monopolized prerogative of the
religio-corporate power elites and ecclesiastically rubberstamped guru figureheads.

We cannot rubberstamp paramahamsas!

Indeed, as only the maha-bhagavata truly has the fitness to bestow
suddha-nama upon anyone, without receiving which a disciplic candidate could hardly hope to make much tangible spiritual progress in this age of Kali, it is the paramahamsa maha-bhagavata alone who viably stands as a comprehensive representative of all our Srila Prabhupada and the acarya-parampara have to offer.

We must always remember - It is not that authority constitutes truth. Truth constitutes authority. That is guru-parampara !

They who prefer to bend, water down, compromise, or obscure the truth to suit various inveigling materially conceived managerial agenda on the plea of propagating the Krishna consciousness movement are not truthful Brahmins, what then of being paramahamsa Vaishnavas."
(His Holiness Aindra Prabhu in his book : The heart of transcendental book distribution")

The instruction for everyone to become guru is found in the following verse in the Caitanya-Caritamrta, which was often quoted by Srila Prabhupada:

"Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Sri Krishna as they are given in Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land."
(C.c. Madhya, 7.128)

However, the type of guru, which Lord Caitanya is encouraging everyone to become, is clearly established in the detailed purports following this verse:

"That is, one should stay at home, chant the Hare Krishna mantra and preach the instructions of Krishna as they are given in Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam."
(C.c. Madhya, 7.128, purport)

"One may remain a householder, medical practitioner, an engineer or whatever. It doesn't matter. One only has to follow the instruction of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, chant the Hare Krishna maha-mantra and instruct relatives and friends in the teachings of Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam [...] It is best not to accept any disciples."
(C.c. Madhya, 7.130, purport)

We can see that these instructions do not demand that the gurus in
question first attain any particular level of realisation before they
act. The request is immediate. From this it is clear everyone is simply encouraged to preach what they may know, and in so doing become siksa, or instructing, gurus. This is further clarified by the stipulation for the siksa guru to remain in that position, and not then go on to become a diksa guru:

"It is best not to accept any disciples."
(C.c. Madhya, 7.130, purport)

To accept disciples is the main business of a diksa guru, whereas a
siksa guru simply needs to carry on his duties and preach Krishna
Consciousness as best he can. It is clear from Srila Prabhupada's
purports that in the above verse Lord Caitanya is actually authorising siksa gurus, not diksa gurus.

This is also made abundantly clear in the many other references where Srila Prabhupada encourages everyone to become guru:


"...'But I have no qualification. How can I become guru ?' There is no need of qualification...Whomever you meet, you simply instruct what Krishna has said. That's all. You become guru."
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 21/5/76, Honolulu)

"yare dekha, tare kaha, Krishna-upadesa. You haven't got to manufacture anything. What Krishna has already said, you repeat. Finish. don't make addition, adulteration. Then you become guru [...] I may be fool, rascal [...] So we have to follow this path, that you become guru, deliver your neighbourhood men, associates, but speak the authoritative words of Krishna. Then it will act [...] Anyone can do. A child can do."
(Srila Prabhupada Evening darshan, 11/5/77, Hrsikesh)


"Because people are in darkness, we require many millions of gurus to enlighten them. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission is, [...] He said that "Everyone of you become guru."
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 21/5/76, Honolulu)


"Because people are in darkness, we require many millions of gurus to enlighten them. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission is, [...] He said that "Everyone of you become guru."
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 21/5/76, Honolulu)


"You simply say [...] "Just always think of Me", Krishna said, "And just become My devotee. Just worship Me and offer obeisances." Kindly do these things." So if you can induce one person to do these things, you become guru. Is there any difficulty?"
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, 2/8/76, New Mayapur)

"Real guru is he who instructs what Krishna has said....You have simply to say, 'This is this.' That's all. Is it very difficult task?"
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 21/5/76, Honolulu)

SIKSA-GURU is also REAL GURU!!

But that does not apply to diksa gurus:

“Vallabha Bhaṭṭa wanted to be initiated by Gadādhara Pandita, BUT
GADADHARA PANDIT !!!!refused, saying, ‘The work of acting as a spiritual master is not possible for me. I am completely dependent. My Lord is Gauracandra, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. I cannot do anything independently, without His order.’ ”
(Cc. Antya 7.150,151)

NOTE !!! GADADHARA PANDIT ( RADHA SELF) CAN'T GIVE DIKSA WITHOUT DIRECT
ORDER FROM GURU !!!!

"Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual
Master ( diksa-guru). That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance. "
(SP Letter Mukunda 6/10/69)

A real diksa-guru is a resident from Krishna-Loka means uttama-adikari with a special authorization but not from GBC!!!

(Astonishingly, some brainwashed devotees have used such quotes as those above as a justification for "minimally qualified diksa gurus", an entity never once mentioned in any of Srila Prabhupada's books, letters, lectures or conversations).

An example of a guru who has no qualification other than repeating what he has heard, could be found on any bhakta induction course in ISKCON.
It is perfectly clear therefore that the above are actually invitations
to become instructing spiritual masters, siksa gurus. We know this since Srila Prabhupada has already explained for us in his books the far more stringent requirements for becoming a diksa guru.

Srila Prabhupada unequivocally stated that the diksa guru must be a mahabhagavata (most advanced stage of God-realisation) AND be specifically authorised by his own spiritual master. He had always strongly condemned the assumption of guruship by those who were not suitably qualified and authorised. We quote below from Srila Prabhupada's books where the qualifications of the diksa guru are stated.

Iskcon-GBC says : Persons who are not full self-realized souls or
topmost Vaisnavas can be diksa-gurus if the GBC approves.( MYTH)


Maha-bhagavata-srestho brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto" pi sarva-yajnesu diksitah
sahasra-sakhadhya yi ca na guruh syad avaisnavah

"The (diksa) guru must be situated on the topmost platform of
devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the
(diksa)guru must be accepted from the topmost class."
(C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)

"When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a (diksa) guru and worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a (diksa) guru."
(C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)

Diksa-Guru = QUALIFICATION AND AUTHORISATION !!

Aside from the qualification, Srila Prabhupada also taught that specific authorisation from the predecessor acarya was also essential before anyone could act as a diksa guru:

"On the whole, you may know that he (Bon Maharaja) is not a liberated person, and therefore, he cannot initiate any person to Krishna Consciousness. It requires special spiritual benediction from higher authorities."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter to Janardana, 26/4/68)


DIRECT EVIDENCE FOR CONTINUANCE OF THE REPRESENTATIVE OF ACARYA SYSTEM AFTER PHYSICAL DISAPPEARANCE :

A. Srila Prabhupada’s direct Ritvik Acarya appointment May 28, 1977 ISKCON Governing Board Commission (GBC) meeting. Notes enclosed in [ ]

Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC. Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.

Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acaryas.

[Srila Prabhupada clearly did not state "diksa-guru" nor "acarya" which is a direct repudiation of the successor diksa-guru accepting their own disciples senario in ISKCON.]

Tamala Krsna Is that called ritvik-acarya?

Prabhupada: Ritvik, yes.

[Srila Prabhupada equates "officiating acarya" with "ritvik" which is
the second direct repudiation of the successor diksa-guru senario in ISKCON.]

Satsvarupa: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and the…

Prabhupada: He’s guru. He’s guru.

Satsvarupa: But he does it on your behalf.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should not become guru, so on my behalf, on my order… Amara ajnaya guru haia. Be actually guru, but by my order.

[This is the third direct repudiation of Srila Prabhupada's disciples
accepting their own disciples in ISKCON.]

Satsvarupa: So they may also be considered your disciples.

Prabhupada: Yes, they are disciples. Why consider? Who?

[This is the fourth direct repudiation of the successor diksa-guru
senario in reply to Satsvarupa's question.]

Tamala Krsna: No, he’s asking that these ritvik-acaryas, they’re
officiating, giving diksa. Their… The people who they give diksa to,
whose disciple are they?

[Here Srila Prabhupada ends his conversation with Satvarupa and replies to Tamal's misunderstanding. Tamal's misunderstanding is clearly evident as he repeats Satvarupa's same question which was already clearly answered by Srila Prabhupada. Further, Tamal's misunderstanding is clear in his saying that ritviks and officiating acaryas give diksa which they clearly don't, as they merely are representing the uttama-adhikari diksa-guru. Tamal's misconception of "diksa" and "diksa-guru" is that both diksa-guru and disciple must be physically present for diksa which clearly contradicts Srila Prabhupada's teachings as i pointed out later .]

Prabhupada: They’re his disciple.

Tamala Krsna: They’re his disciple.

Prabhupada: Who is initiating. He is grand disciple.

Satsvarupa: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: That’s clear.

[Here Tamal draws his own conclusion and foolishly accepts only the sentence ("There're his disciple.") which he likes or understands. He ignores Srila Prabhupada's clear answers to Satvarupa's previous questions which repudiated the "disciples accepting their own disciples" senario in ISKCON four times and thus Tamal misses Prabhupada's concluding statement as follows.]

Satsvarupa: Then we have a question concer…

Prabhupada: When I order, "You become guru," he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That’s it.

[Here Srila Prabhupada clearly concludes his reply to Tamal and says that his disciples can become regular guru and accept their own disciples only when he orders them to. This clearly indicates that he did not yet give the specific order for his disciples to become regular (diksa) gurus and accept their own disciples in ISKCON in this meeting.

He already repeatedly confirmed this fact with his prior repudiation
(four times) in reply to Satsvarupa's original question on what the GBC were to do for 1st and 2nd initiations "when you no longer are with us" as already pointed out. So it is inconceivable that he changes his mind in replying to what is essentially the same question from Tamal vis-a vis, "Whose disciples are they?".

Tamal's misunderstanding of this crucial meeting was later confirmed in the 1980 Topanga Canyon guru meeting detailed in subsection II.A. Unfortunately as secretary, his deviation was also written into the minutes of the May 28, 1977 meeting.

Here on youtube for hearing :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwPqWRrJvBI

"Actually Prabhupada never appointed any gurus, he appointed eleven ritviks. He never appointed them gurus. Myself and the other GBC have done the greatest disservice to this movement for the last three years because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus. [...] Srila Prabhupada said: 'All right. I will appoint so many ...' and he started to name them. He made it very clear that they are his disciples. At that point it was very clear in my mind that he were his disciples. [...] You cannot show me anything on tape or in writing were Prabhupada says: 'I appoint these eleven as gurus' it does not exist. Because he never appointed any gurus. This a myth. "
(Tamala Krishna Goswami: Pyramid House Confession December 3rd 1980)

"Every student is expected to become Acarya. Acarya means one who knows the scriptural injunctions and follows them practically in life, and teaches them to his disciples (...)
Keep trained up very rigidly and then you are bona fide Guru, and you can accept disciples on the same principle. But as a matter of etiquette it is the custom that during the lifetime of your Spiritual master you bring the prospective disciples to him, and in his absence or disappearance you can accept disciples without any limitation. This is the law of disciplic succession. I want to see my disciples become bona fide Spiritual Master and spread Krishna consciousness very widely, that will make me and Krishna very happy."
(New Delhi 2 December, 1975 Letter to Tusta Krishna Swami)

Referring to the letter to Tusta Krishna quoted above where the “law” is mentioned, Jayadvaita Swami states:

“I accept that this quotation doesn’t “prove” that a departed acarya
can’t initiate. I never said that it does.”
(Jayadvaita Swami, 4th June, 2004)

MYTH:
“There is a fundamental difference between the terms ‘spiritual master’ or ‘Guru’ and the term ‘acarya’.”

BUSTED:
According to Srila Prabhupada, the terms “Guru”, “acarya” and “spiritual master” are all interchangeable:

“A guru is called also an acarya…”
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.7.43, purport).

“Srila Prabhupada did not appoint anyone to be guru for the future, he appointed ritviks to continue in his presence. That much is accepted by everyone.”
(His Holiness Jayadvaita Swami Maharaja (San Diego 1990)


“Why do we hesitate to tell a newcomer who is searching for a guru that Srila Prabhupada, the best guru the world has ever seen, is still here, and one can surrender unto him and go back to Godhead very easily?”
(HH Bhakti Charu Swami, Srila Prabhupada’s Disappearance Day, October 31st, 2000)

"Regarding parampara system, there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. [...]We have to pick up the prominent acarya and follow from him."
(SP Letter to Dayananda, 12/4/68)


4 years bevor Srila Prabhupada’s ritvik-appointment May 28, 1977 ISKCON Governing Board Commission (GBC) meeting. :

"My Dear [Disciple 1], Please accept my blessings. Just now I have
received some more requests for giving first initiation… and now I am receiving weekly not less than ten to fifteen such requests from new students. So it is becoming very expensive to send so many sets of beads such a long distance, and it has become a little bothersome for me also, so I think now you may be appointed by me to give first initiations to new disciples by chanting on their beads on my behalf. In America [Disciple 2] is doing that. So now if there are two of you, that will give me great relief. [Disciple 2] will chant on the beads for new devotees in America, Canada, like that; you can chant on the beads for
the European continent, new disciples. They shall, of course, still be considered as my disciples, not that they shall become your disciples, but you will be empowered by me to chant their beads and that is the same effect of binding master and disciple as if I were personally chanting."
(SP Letter, January 4, 1973)

"Prescription Takes Precedence Over Book Knowledge
I am aware of the fact that devotees will bring so many quotations from Srila Prabhupada's books to support conclusions contrary to the rittvik representative system prescribed by Srila Prabhupada in the July 9, 1977 letter.

To such devotees we must point out that Prabhupada's books are the standard books for everyone in the Brahma Gaudiya Sampradaya, just as the law books or medical books are standard books in their field. Still, when the judge hands down a judgment or the physician writes a specific prescription for the patient, that takes precedence over the book knowledge. Although Prabhupada wrote so many books, his prescription for his immature disciples in the last days was "Act as rittvik representative of the ACHARYA, DEPUTIES and MONITOR of the ACHARYA."

Having run the full course of this race, this point is very clear by
realisation born of the fire of ordeal. I am not philosophising these
are my realisations by the grace of Prabhupada and Krishna."
(Hansadutta dasa, June, 1993)

As a general point, later instructions from the guru will always
supersede previous instructions; the final order is the final order, and must be followed:

"I may say many things to you, but when I say something directly to you, you do it. Your first duty is to do that, you cannot argue - "Sir you said to me do like this before", no that is not your duty, what I say to you now you do it, that is obedience you cannot argue."
(Srila Prabhupada S.B. Lecture, 14/4/75, Hyderabad)

Just as in the Bhagavad-gita Lord Krishna gave so many instructions to Arjuna, he spoke of all types of yoga from Dhyana to Jnana, but all this was superseded by the final order:

"Always think of Me and become My devotee"- should be taken as the final order of the Lord and should be followed."
(Teachings of Lord Caitanya, chapter 11)

The final order given by Sankaracarya,"bhaja Govinda", was also meant to supersede many of his earlier statements - all of them, in fact. As mentioned in the introduction, the GBC itself recognises this as an axiomatic principle of logic:

"In logic, later statements supersede earlier ones in importance." (GBC Handbook , p. 25)

It is not possible to have a "later" statement than the last one.

July 9, 1977 worldwide final order to all GBC and TP

July 9th, 1977

To All G.B.C., and Temple Presidents

Dear Maharajas and Prabhus,

Please accept my humble obeisances at your feet. Recently when all of the GBC members were with His Divine Grace in Vrndavana, Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as "rittik"-representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation. His Divine Grace has so far given a list of eleven disciples who will act in that capacity:

• His Holiness Kirtanananda Swami
• His Holiness Satsvarupa dasa Gosvami
• His Holiness Jayapataka Swami
• His Holiness Tamala Krsna Gosvami
• His Holiness Hrdayananda Gosvami
• His Holiness Bhavananda Gosvami
• His Holiness Hamsaduta Swami
• His Holiness Ramesvara Swami
• His Holiness Harikesa Swami
• His Grace Bhagavan dasa Adhikari
• His Grace Jayatirtha dasa Adhikari

In the past Temple Presidents have written to Srila Prabhupada
recommending a particular devotee’s initiation. Now that Srila
Prabhupada has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple.

After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada by giving a spiritual name, or in the case of second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupada has done. The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative. After the Temple President receives a letter from these representatives giving the spiritual name or the thread, he can perform the fire yajna in the temple as was being done before. The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace’s "Initiated Disciples" book.

Hoping this finds you all well.
Your servant, Tamala Krsna Gosvami
Secretary to Srila Prabhupada
Approved: A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
[Srila Prabhupada's signature appears on the original]

(Note: There is a reference to the May 28, 1977 meeting in Vrindavan in which Srila Prabhupada replied to a specific question from the GBC on what to do for iniitiations after his physical disappearance.

"Now you have a very good field. Now organize it and it will be a great credit. No one will disturb you there. Make your own field and continue to become ritvik and act on my behalf."
(Śrīla Prabhupāda to Hansadutta : July 31, 1977)

The July 9, 1977 worldwide final order to all GBC and Tempelpresidents and this Letter to Hansadutta Prabhu July 31, 1977 are the last and final orders/instructions from Prabhupada for Iskcon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I may say many things to you, but when I say something directly to you, you do it. Your first duty is to do that, you cannot argue - "Sir you said to me do like this before", no that is not your duty, what I say to you now you do it, that is obedience you cannot argue."
(Srila Prabhupada S.B. Lecture, 14/4/75, Hyderabad)


Bhavananda:
"There will be men, I know. There will be men who want to try and pose themselves a gurus."

Tamal Krsna:
"That was going on many years ago. Your Godbrothers were thinking like that. Madhava Maharaja ... "

Bhavananda:
"Oh yes. Oh, ready to jump."

Srila Prabhupada: "Very strong management required and vigilant
observation ... "
(ROOM CONVERSATION. May 27 1977)

"I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and ALL the members of the Society, they’re supposed to be MY disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are INITIATED BY ME spiritually" –
(Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12 March 1968, San Francisco)

"Unless one is initiated by a bona fide spiritual master, all his
devotional activities are useless. A person who is not properly
initiated can descend again into the animal species."
(Madhya 15:108 (p), quoting Hari Bhakti Vilasa, 2.6)

"...in order to receive the real message of Srimad Bhagavatam one
should approach the current link, or spiritual master, in the chain of
disciplic succession. After being initiated by the proper spiritual
master in that chain of succession, one should engage himself in the discharge of tapasya in the execution of devotional service"
(S.B. 2.9.7, purport)

Ritviks or Representatives of acarya are sastra confirmed but our
Iskcon-Gurusystem now is not Sastra-confirmed Ananda Prabhuji :

"In this way the disciple renders devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master or his representatives for at least six months to a year."
(C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)

Excerpt from Srila Prabhupada's Declaration of last Will :

"The executive directors who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said directors, a successor director or directors may be appointed by the remaining directors, provided the new director IS MY initiated disciple following strictly all the rules and regulations of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness as detailed in my books, and provided that there are never less than three (3) or more than five (5) exeutive directors acting at one time."

Especially this point: ...." provided the new director is MY initiated
disciple".......!!

“the will is signed by Srila Prabhupada, and it clearly says that each successor director should be Srila Prabhupada’s initiated disciple.”
(Where the Ritvik People are Wrong, Jayadvaita Swami, 1996)

This of course can only happen if the ritvik system is in place for all
times in ISKCON, and therefore every future devotee becomes “Srila Prabhupada’s initiated disciple.”

Challenging this direct evidence for the ritvik system in ISKCON,Jayadvaita Swami Maharaja states the following:

“And ultimately one can become not only his disciple in spirit but his “initiated disciple” through the guru-parampara system.”
(Where the Ritvik People are Wrong, Jayadvaita Swami, 1996)

Jayadvaita Swami Maharaja states that one becomes Srila Prabhupada’s initiated disciple through the guru-parampara system.

In a subsequent paper Jayadvaita Swami Maharaja states the ritvik system brings:

“an end to the parampara system”
(Where the Ritvik People are Wrong Again, Jayadvaita Swami, 1998)

This Prabhupada's final will can only work in the future after Prabhupada's physical departure, if these Ritvik-system instruction are followed and this instruction also:

“The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator guru,
and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, August 4th, 1975)

"The order of the spiritual master is the active principle in spiritual
life. Anyone who disobeys the order of the spiritual master immediately becomes useless."

PURPORT
"Here is the opinion of Śrīla Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī. Persons who strictly follow the orders of the spiritual master are useful in
executing the will of the Supreme, whereas persons who deviate from the strict order of the spiritual master are useless."
(Adi-Lila 12.10)


"Some of the disciples strictly accepted the orders of the ācārya, and others deviated, independently concocting their own opinions under the spell of daivī-māyā."

PURPORT
"This verse describes the beginning of a schism. When disciples do not stick to the principle of accepting the order of their spiritual master, immediately there are two opinions. Any opinion different from the opinion of the spiritual master is useless. One cannot infiltrate materially concocted ideas into spiritual advancement. That is deviation. There is no scope for adjusting spiritual advancement to material ideas."
(Adi-Lila 12.9)

Diksa normally involves a ceremony, but it is not absolutely essential, more a formality:

"So anyway, from 1922 to 1933 practically I was not initiated, but I got the impression of preaching Caitanya Mahaprabhu's cult. That I was thinking. And that was the initiation by my Guru Maharaja."
(SP Lecture, 10/12/76, Hyderabad)

"Initiation is a formality. If you are serious, that is real initiation. My touch is simply a formality. It is your determination, that is initiation."
(BTG, Search for the Divine)

“Diksa actually means *initiating* a disciple *with transcendental knowledge* by which he becomes freed from all material contamination.” (Madhya-lila, 4:112, Purport)

"Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa."
(C.C. Mad., 15-108)

"First He says the spiritual master awakens the sleeping living entity to his original consciousness so that he can worship Lord Visnu. This is the purpose of diksa or initiation. Initiation means receiving the pure knowledge of spiritual consciousness."
[Madhya-Lila 9.61,purport]


"...disciplic succession does not always mean that one has to be initiated officially. Disciplic succession means to accept the disciplic conclusion."
(SP Letter to Dinesh, 31/10/69)

"If you have understood this Krsna philosophy and if you have decided that you will take Krsna consciousness seriously and preach the philosophy to others. That is your initiation, my touch is simply a formality. It is your determination that is initiation."
(B.T.G. Article "Search for the Divine")

Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) ...knowledge. Initiation is FORMALITY. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is FORMALITY. THAT IS NOT VERY IMPORTANT THING.
(Srila Prabhupada in an interview to the press on Oct 16th 1976 in Chandigarh)

"The chanting of Hare Krsna is our main business, that is real initiation. And as you are all following my instruction, in that matter, the initiator is already there."
(SP Letter to Tamal Krsna, 19/8/68)

„Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.“
(BG 4.34)

"Eternal bond between disciple and Spiritual Master begins from the day he hears."
(SP Letter to Jadurani, 4/9/72)

"These are not ordinary books. It is recorded chanting. Anyone who reads, he is hearing."
(Letter to Rupanuga Das, 19/10/74)

"The spiritual master by his words, can penetrate into the heart of the suffering person and inject knowledge transcendental which alone can extinguish the fire of material existence."
(S.B. 1.7.22, purport)

Devotee:
Srila Prabhupada when you're not present with us, how is it possible to receive instructions? For example in questions that may arise...

Srila Prabhupada:
Well the questions are answ...answers are there in my books.
(SP Morning Walk, Los Angeles, 13/5/73)

"So we should give more stress on the sound vibration, either of Krishna or Spiritual Master. Never think that I am absent from you, presence by message (or hearing) is the real touch."
(SP Letter to students, 2/8/67)

"Reception of spiritual knowledge is never checked by any material condition."
(S.B. 7.7.1. purport)

"The potency of transcendental sound is never minimised because the vibrator is apparently absent."
(S.B. 2.9.8. purport)


Srila Prabhupada:
Even a moments association with a pure devotee - all success!

Revatinanda:
Does that apply to reading the words of a pure devotee?

Srila Prabhupada:
Yes

Revatinanda:
Even a little association with your books has the same effect?

Srila Prabhupada:
Effect. Of course it requires both things. One must be very eager to take it.
(SP Room Conversation, 13/12/70)

Paramahamsa:
My question is, a pure devotee, when he comments on Bhagavad Gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with the commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?

Srila Prabhupada:
Yes. You can associate with Krishna by reading Bhagavad-Gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty?
(SP Morning Walk, Paris 11/6/74)

"There is nothing new to be said. Whatever I had to say, I have already said in my books. Now you must try to understand it and continue with your endeavours. Whether I am present or not does not matter. "
(Arrival Conversation, Vrindavan, 17/5/77)

"If I depart there is no cause for lamentation. I will always be with you through my books and orders. I will always remain with you in that way."
(Back To Godhead 13:1-2, December 1977)

"Every one of you must regularly read our books at least twice, in the morning and evening, and automatically all questions will be answered."
(SP Letter to Randhira, 24/01/70)

"So utilise whatever time you find to make a thorough study of my books. Then all your questions will be answered."
(SP Letter to Upendra, 7/1/76)

"In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is explained fully so if there is anything you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop."
(SP Letter to Brahmarupa Dasa, 22/11/74)

Narayana:
So those disciples who don't have the opportunity to see you or speak with you...

Srila Prabhupada:
That he was speaking, vani and vapuh. Even if you don't see his body, you take his words, vani.

Narayana:
But how do they know that they're pleasing you?

Srila Prabhupada:
If you actually follow the words of Guru, that means he is pleased. And if you do not follow, how can he be pleased?

Sudama:
Not only that, but your mercy is spread everywhere, and if we take advantage, you told us once, then we will feel the result.

Srila Prabhupada:
Yes.

Jayadvaita:
And if we have faith in what the Guru says, then automatically we'll do that.

Srila Prabhupada:
Yes. My Guru Maharaja passed away in 1936, and I started this movement in 1965, 30 years after. Then? I am getting mercy of Guru. This is vani. Even if Guru is not physically present, if you follow the vani, then you are getting help.

Sudama:
So there is no question of ever separation as long as the disciple follows the instructions of Guru.

Srila Prabhupada:
No. Cakhu-dano-dilo-jei. What is the next one?

Sudama:
Cakhu-dano-dilo-jei, janme janme prabhu sei.

Srila Prabhupada:
Janme janme prabhu sei. So where there is separation? Who has opened your eyes, he is birth after birth your prabhu.
(SP Morning Walk, 21/7/75, San Francisco)

"If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference between the spiritual masters instructions and the spiritual master himself. In the absence therefore, his words of direction should be pride of the disciple."
(C.c. Adi 1.35, purport)

"He lives forever by his divine instructions, and the follower lives with him."
(S.B. Preface)

"Yes, the ecstacy of separation of Spiritual Master is even greater ecstasy than meeting with him."
(SP Letter to Jadurani, 13/1/68)

"Krishna and his representative are the same. Similarly, the spiritual master can be present wherever the disciple wants. A spiritual master is the principle, not the body. Just like a television can be seen in thousands of place by the principle of relay monitoring."
(SP Letter to Malati, 28/5/68)

Does the Guru have to be physically present?

"Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life. That will make our spiritual life successful. If you feel very strongly about my absence you may place my pictures on my sitting places and this will be source of inspiration for you."
(SP Letter to Brahmananda and other students, 19/1/67)

"But always remember that I am always with you. As you are always thinking of me, I am always thinking of you also. Although physically we are not together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should be concerned only with this spiritual connection."
(SP Letter to Gaurasundara, 13/11/69)

"So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association."
(SP Lectures SB, 18/08/68)

"There are two conceptions, the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary. The vibrational conception is eternal.[...] When we feel separation from Krishna or the Spiritual Master, we should just try to remember their words or instructions, and we will no longer feel that separation. Such association with Krishna and the Spiritual Master should be association by vibration not physical presence. That is real association."
(Elevation to Krishna Consciousness, chapter 4)

"Although according to material vision His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarsavati Thakura Prabhupada passed away from this material world on the last day of December 1936, I still consider his Divine Grace to be always present with me by his vani, his words. There are two ways of association - by vani and by vapuh. Vani means words and vapuh means physical presence. Physical presence is sometimes appreciable and sometimes not, but vani continues to exist eternally. Therefore, one must take advantage of the vani, not the physical presence."
(C.c. Antya, concluding words)

"Therefore we should take advantage of the vani, not the physical presence."
(SP Letter to Suci Devi Dasi, 4/11/75)

"I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja."
(SP Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 14/7/77)

"It is sometimes misunderstood that if one has to associate with persons engaged in devotional service, he will not be able to solve the economic problem. To answer this argument, it is described here that one has to associate with liberated persons not directly, physically, but by understanding, through philosophy and logic, the problems of life."
(SB 3:31:48 purport)

"I am always with you. Never mind if I am physically absent."
(SP Letter to Jayananda, 16/9/67)

"What we have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living."
(Lecture, 15/1/69)

Statement by Srila Prabhupada in New York in 1968:

“After me there will be no more Acarya”
(recounted by Rohini Kumar Swami in July 1989, November 1991 and February 1993).

I wish that each and every Branch shall keep their independent identity and cooperate keeping the Acarya ( Srila Prabhupada) in the centre. On this principle we can open any number of Branches all over the world.
(Letter to Kirtanananda -- San Francisco 11 February, 1967)

"Srila Prabhupada has taught us that the disciplic succession is a living affair [...] The law of disciplic succession is that one approaches a living spiritual master - living in the sense of being physically present."
(Sivarama Swami ISKCON Journal, p.31, GBC 1990)

It is hard to reconcile the above assertion with statements such as:

"Physical presence is not important."
(Srila Prabhupada Room conversation, 6/10/77, Vrindavan)

or

"Physical presence is immaterial."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 19/1/67)

Of course, we must have a guru who is external, since in the conditioned stage pure reliance on the Supersoul is not possible, but nowhere does Srila Prabhupada teach that this physical guru must also be physically present:

"Therefore one must take advantage of the vani, not the physical presence."
(C.c. Antya, concluding words)

Srila Prabhupada practically demonstrated this principle by initiating large numbers of his disciples without ever meeting them physically at all. This fact in itself proves that diksa can be obtained without any physical involvement from the guru. There is nothing in sastra, or from Srila Prabhupada, linking diksa with physical presence.

Krsna has given you the ears. Therefore Vedic knowledge is called sruti. You go to a proper person, guru, and hear from him. Therefore this word is used. Sruyamanayam. If you hear from the right person, then krsne parama puruse bhaktir utpadyate. Then you develop your Krsna consciousness.
(S.B. Lecture, 1.7.7 Vrndavana 6th September, 1976)

"The chanting of the holy name is so powerful that it gradually establishes its supremacy above everything in the world. The devotee who chants it becomes transcendentally situated in ecstasy and sometimes laughs, cries and dances in his ecstasy. Sometimes the unintelligent put hindrances in the path of chanting this maha-mantra, but one who is situated on the platform of love of Godhead chants the holy name loudly for all concerned. As a result everyone becomes----INITIATED----!! in the chanting of the holy names--Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare."
(T.L.C. Chapter 18)

"Devotional service entails being initiated by a bona fide spiritual master and following his instruction in regard to hearing about the Lord. Such a bona fide spiritual master is accepted by regularly hearing from him about the Lord."
(S.B. 3.5.42)

Diksa Given to Madhyama-adhikari is Not a Formality

No disrespect intended to Shiva das Prabhu, but there is a philosophical misunderstanding and I have just compiled below a reply to prove the point. Shiva das wrote:

"Also contradicting his thesis is the numerous places where Srila Prabhupada said that madhyama and even kanistha devotees can act as diksa gurus"

This is a misunderstanding - you will not find ONE quote to say Kanistha or even a Madhyam devotee can act as DIKSA guru!

THE STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES ARE INITIATED ACCORDING TO AUTHORIZED PANCARATRIKI REGULATIONS

There are two aspects in initiation:

1) Formality (Pancaratriki) - name giving ceremony etc
2) Diksa (Knowledge= divja-jnana) - spiritual initiation received by Madhyama adhikari

So a question may be raised, why formality?

The answer is very simple: the Diksa given to Madhyama adhikari is NOT a formality. Initiation offered to neophyte/Kanistha IS a Formality. THIS is the BIG difference!!

In conformity with the establishment of the formality of a Ritvik System 9th July 1977, Srila Prabhupada’s signed directive to the society the Pancaratriki regulations were followed in this initiation. “THE STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES ARE INITIATED ACCORDING TO AUTHORIZED PANCARATRIKI REGULATIONS”

„This is a general principle. However, A person who is liberated acharya and guru cannot commit any mistake, but there are persons who are less qualified or not liberated, but still can act as 'guru' and 'acharya' by strictly following the disciplic succession.“
(Lecture 26th April, 1968. New York)

Whether one uses the terms OFFICIATING ACARYA OR RITVIK OR REPRESENTATIVE they mean the SAME ie to ACT ON BEHALF OF ACARYA. So this is act as “guru” and “Acarya”. They ACTING as OFFICIATING ACARYA OR RITVIK REPRESENTATIVE OF ACARYA. They are NOT acarya but acting as in capacity to OFFICIATE on behalf of the ACARYA. This is very clear. Srila Prabhupada has in all front cover of the Books:

Founder-Acarya His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. The hypen means Srila Prabhupada IS the ACARYA of ISKCON not simply its Founder consequently, one who wants to accept the position of formality of initiating others can ONLY do so ON BELHALF of Srila Prabhupada the ACARYA. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. Srila Prabhupada’s Diksa giving position in ISKCON as long as it exists is IRREPLACEABLE.


Here Sripad Aindra Prabhus quotes :

"Let the over-intelligent, doggedly resorting to materially contrived
managerial stratagems, injudiciously undermine the essential principle of keeping single-minded confidence in the lucid instructions of the institutional Founder-acarya; they’ll have to learn the hard way – as will the attendantly implicated!

Let hundreds of heedless sannyasis and guru-figureheads plunge from their pompous pedestals owing to their often sentimentally justified, inappropriately frequent, and overextended proximity in dealings with their female disciples and so on. Why should we lament or bother ourselves to in any way condemn or condone; these things are going on – and on – and will continue to go on and on and on . . . Trust no future however pleasant.

Let the upper-organizational----oligarchy----- (russia translation =
power-jews) essay to save face by repeatedly rehashing their
clandestine attempts to cloak the pitiable transgressions of the
institutionally rubberstamped guru-figureheads."
( His Holiness Sripad Aindra Prabhu in his book : "The heart of
transcendental book distribution " )

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja Prabhupada:

“Therefore having a bona fide spiritual master and serving him and pleasing him and getting his mercy is essential. Otherwise there can be no advancement in Krishna consciousness. And unless the spiritual master is a pure devotee of Krishna then he has no potency to give you Krishna. He is simply a cheating rascal.

So in fact above all the rules and regulations and offenses I have mentioned the most important thing, the essential thing, which is required if you want to come to the stage of purely chanting the Hare Krishna mantra is you must have a bona fide spiritual master who is a pure devotee of Krishna. Without having a bona fide spiritual master you can chant Hare Krishna forever but you will not be able to advance because Krishna does not reveal Himself in this way. He only reveals Himself to those devotees who surrender to and serve and please His pure devotees.”.
(SP Letter to his London disciples, July, 1969)

“And if you get a bona fide spiritual master, he will take you to Krsna.”
(The Laws of Nature, chapter 1, p. 43)

“This is the process of initiation. […]
Then, the spiritual master takes care of him and elevates him to spiritual emancipation.”
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 24.256)

“It is not that after we become initiated we become perfect. No. It requires teaching. So if we take instruction from them, all senior godbrothers may be treated as guru, there is no harm.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, November 20th, 1971)

The class monitor never takes the place of the teacher, but assists him in his absence

“Sometimes a diksa guru is not present always. Therefore one can take learning, instruction, from an advanced devotee. That is called the siksa guru.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, July 4th, 1974)

AINDRA PRABHUs FINAL WORDS FOR A SANKIRTAN REVOLUTION !!!

RELIGIO-INSTITUTIONAL PSYWAR

[Principles of psychological disempowerment]

1. Convince the enemy [us, the laity] that there is no war so we see no cause for alarm.

2. Make us believe that they [the institutional power elite] are
stronger than they really are, and make us believe that we [the grass roots contingency] are weaker than we really are.

3. Hide the truth cover-up, distort, lie, confuse, falsify . . .
divert, pervert, put down, and demonize the truth . . . to manipulate the history, present, and future of society.

4. Quell the resistance before it has a chance to raise its ugly head. Slander, scorn, and/or eliminate dissenters [the audacious few who break the code of silence] to demoralize further potential protests.

5. Intimidation compel by unilateral communication of increasingly
ever-constraining institutional law. Supplant multi-angular
philosophical discussion with sophistical dogma.

The institutional power elites are small in number [potentially weak] but at present considerably organized and dominant though not very popular. We,the unvoiced majority, are potentially powerful but presently misinformed, under-educated, apathetic, obsequious, disarrayed, and disorganized too busy with our dumbed-down pursuit of our daily fare to think very deeply about anything.

The power elites, by exercising their political leverage, have quite a handle on the temporal institutional facilities [men, money, social and organizational infrastructure, media (spin control), etc.] They are parasitic in behavior, fat, corrupt, speculative, deceitful,
increasingly sluggish, and paranoid. We the laity control very little of the institutional hardware. It will be very difficult for us to erect a power structure as they have to counter their political advantage within the context of ?their? establishment. Yet those of us who are awake to the power elite?s misguided agenda to stealthily hijack, dysfunctionalize, and derail, from within, the Krishna consciousness movement by incremental trans-sectarian interfaith homogenization can and must assiduously acquaint ourselves and others with the true principles of sampradaya as per the gaudiya-siddhanta according to the statements of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and the previous acaryas.

WAKE UP PRABHUS! EVERYONE WAKE UP!

Everything is not alright. We have been and are being purposely steered
off course. Do not acquiesce to any so-called leader's [or any group of
so-called leaders] deviant philosophical misconstructions. Understand
the issues: errant material control systems, corporatization,
centralization, bureaucratization, social liberalization, rubberstamped
guruship, psychologically coerced communal compliance, marginalization
of nama-sankirtana, contractual institutional commitment, etc.
Understand the ramifications: guru-avajna; crippling of individual
striving, creativity, and expression; decline of pure devotional ethos
into obscurity, vulnerability to broad-scope multi-level globalist
infiltration.

They rely on our ease-loving ignorance, our tendency to gravitate
through the supposed path of least resistance, and our lazy
disinclination to stand up against all odds to fight for truth on behalf
of our predecessor acaryas. We cannot blame anyone except ourselves for
our lack of Krishna consciousness. We must think with our own minds !!
not with theirs. Understand their tactics. Increased awareness of the
truth brings with it increased spiritual power. Increased spiritual
power puts time on our side. That is our strength.

Temporal institutional might does not make right. Even if the
clandestine manipulators of institutional affairs are able to
nefariously usurp the external institutional set-up, they can neither
usurp our souls nor will they ever win our heartfelt comraderie. It is
time for revolution a revolution of consciousness. Let the
institutional power brokers beware.

The increasing numbers of we who are on to their antics will have
revolution with or without their consent or cooperation. The biggest
bubble of maya can doubtlessly be burst by the minutest pinprick of
genuine Krishna consciousness. The critical mass of our spark-like
grass-roots Krishna consciousness will ultimately prevail and
conflagrate their insinuative billowing-cotton-like mayic institutional
tyranny.

A CALL TO ARMS

1. Intelligently fight institutional maya with the most powerful weapon
of the Holy Name.

2. Form local daily nama-sankirtana cells world-wide.

3. Regularly congregate for prolonged mass hari-nama-sankirtan
demonstrations.

4. Start chanting a minimum of one lac of Holy Names daily.

5. Confront local, regional, and zonal institutional authorities and
convince them to do the same ? its either shape up or ship out.

6. Organize a grass roots signature campaign to express the general lack
of confidence in the current institutional leadership.

7. Transition from the problem-think to the solution-think mind-set.

8. Be Krishna conscious in all circumstantial success or failure.

If we are not part of the solution we are part of the problem.

The solution is simple [for the simple]: Harer-namaiva-kevalam.

Take shelter of the Holy Name as your only business.

Nothing to lose ? everything to gain.
(His Holiness Sripad Aindra Prabhu)

Now, Canakya Pandita gives three things, formula, “If you want to be
fortunate, then do these three things.” What is that? Murkha yatra na
pujyante: “Do not give any credit to the rascal.” That is first
qualification. Don’t be carried away by the rascal. Murkha yatra na
pujyante. If you worship a rascal, then your life is spoiled. You must
worship a really learned representative of God. That is very good.
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.31 San Francisco, July 16, 1975)

‎"So this movement is so important. Somehow or other if you can engage
them in chanting and dancing, the whole world will be united. What the
United Nations has failed, this movement can do–if it is not checked by
the rascals. But the rascals are ready to check this movement. That is
the difficulty. Otherwise, God, Krsna, is always ready to help us."
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.26.18 Bombay, December 27, 1974)

The pseudo religionists have neither knowledge nor detachment from
material affairs, for most of them want to live in the golden shackles
of material bondage under the shadow of philanthropic activities
disguised as religious principles. By a false display of religious
sentiments, they present a show of devotional service while indulging in
all sorts of immoral activities. In this way they pass as spiritual
masters and devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have
no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the
strict disciplic succession.

THEY IGNORE THE VEDIC INJUNCTION ACARYOPASANA–”ONE MUST WORSHIP THE
ACARYA”–and Krsna’s statement in the Bhagavad-gita (4.2) evam
parampara-praptam, “This supreme science of God is received through the
disciplic succession.” Instead, to mislead the people in general they
themselves become so-called acaryas, but they do not even follow the
principles of the acaryas. These rogues are the most dangerous elements
in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape
punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law
of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the Bhagavad-gita that
envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown
into the darkest regions of hell (Isopanisad 12)

SRI ISOPANISAD CONFIRMS THAT THESE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS ARE HEADING
TOWARD THE MOST OBNOXIOUS PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE AFTER THE COMPLETION OF
THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS, WHICH THEY CONDUCT SIMPLY FOR SENSE
GRATIFICATION. (Bg.16.19-20)

“There are many jealous people in the dress of Vaishnavas in this
Krishna Consciousness movement, and they should be completely neglected.
A false acarya may try to override a vaishnava by a high-court decision,
(2/3 hand vote) but Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that he is nothing but a
disciple of Kali-yuga.”.

“Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, Kali-cela. He indicates that there are other
Vaishnavas, pseudo-Vaishnavas, with tilaka on their nose and kunti beads
around their neck. Such a pseudo-Vaishnava associates with money and
women and is jealous of successful Vaishnavas. Although passing for a
Vaishnava, his only business is earning money in the dress of a Vaishnava”.
(CC.Madhy.,Ch.1, Text 218 / 220, purport)

"Satyam, truthfulness, means that facts should be presented as they are
for the benefit of others. Facts should not be misrepresented. According
to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when
it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth
should be spoken in a straight and forward way, so that others will
understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if
people are warned that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes
the truth is unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it.
Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the
benefit of others. That is the definition of truth."
[Srila Prabhupada from Bhagavad-gita 10.4-5]

Prabhupada: (break) ...worm and the sun. When the sun is arisen, the
glowworms, automatically finished. (break) ...motto, "Krsna is sun." You
know it? Krsna surya-sama. So when Krsna sun is there, all these
glowworms' lightening will be finished. (break) Keep this sun always
shining. Then these glowworms will be finished.
( S.P.Morning Walk June 21, 1975, Los Angeles)

Prabhupada: Ah. So this is our one of the items, to vanquish all these
rascals, so-called swamis. They say that "Why you criticize others
also?" Because we have to vanquish them. Now these people cannot rise.
When there is sunrise, there is no use of these glowworms. So this Krsna
consciousness movement is Krsna Himself. Therefore they must be
finished, all over the world. So-called religionists, so-called
philosophers, so-called avataras, swamis, yogis--finished. Our program
should be like that. (break) ...all these rascals, anymore to flourish.
That is one of our program.
(S.P.Morning Walk Excerpts May 2, 1974, Bombay)

Prabhupada: Potency. Just like electricity. There is standard
regulation: "This is negative; this is positive. You must act like this.
You must fix like..." You cannot do whimsically: "No, why not this way?
Why not that way?" Then it is lost. Then there will be no electricity.
Similarly, there is standard method how to understand this philosophy,
how to get it, I mean to say, what is called, authoritatively. Then it
will act.
(S.P.Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter)October 8, 1975, Durban)

If you go on as you are doing now,then it will go on. But if you stop...

Ganesa: Srila Prabhupada, if the knowledge was handed down by the
saintly kings, evam parampara-praptam, how is it that the knowledge was
lost?

Prabhupada: When it was not handed down. Simply understood by
speculation. Or if it is not handed down as it is. They might have made
some changes.Or they did not hand it down. Suppose I handed it down to
you, but if you do not do that, then it is lost. Now the Krsna
consciousness movement is going on in my presence. Now after my
deparature, if you do not do this, then it is lost. If you go on as you
are doing now, then it will go on. But if you stop... (end)
( S.P.Room Conversation with Carol Cameron May 9, 1975, Perth)