Hare Krishna to all
Obeisances
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
I was just reading the following few pages today in the Make Vrindavana booklet comprised entirely of conversations with Srila Prabhupada.
The below four quotes are only within a few pages of this book. There is so much information in Prabhupada’s statements. These are about guru-tattva… Please read
Hare Krishna
Damaghosa das
————————————————————–
1) 750203mw.haw Conversations 371399/530501
Srila Prabhupada: Sarva-sastre kaya, lava-matra sadhu-sange sarva-siddhi-haya. For me, personally, I had the opportunity to talk with my spiritual master not more than ten times in my whole life, not more.
It may be less than that. But I tried to follow his instruction, that’s all, although I was a grhastha.
————————————————————–
So in the above statement by Srila Prabhupada we hear him saying he was with or heard his Guru Maharaj not more than ten times, maybe less than ten times..
So how was Srila Prabhupada getting instructions (DAILY) from his Guru? Over a span of many years (he met Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj around 1920, and he passed away in 1935). So over the course of 15 years he was with him less than 10 times. So if you want to average it out, to less than once a year assuming ten meetings of the two personalities.
So in those few short times, he got some instructions, the main one we know was, “if you get money print books”, and the other one was, “preach to the English speaking people of the world, it will do good to you and them”. And I am sure there were a few more..
So my point here is this: How was Srila Prabhupada getting daily instruction, guidance, inspiration, etc from a Guru he only met less than once a year?? Could you even run a mundane family/business/temple on one instruction a year? No, of course not. It takes thousands…
And the instructions Prabhupada told us he got were mainly only the above two? Hardly much information for starting a world wide organization one would think? Where did all the extreme details about Krishna Consciousness come from that you will find in Srila Prabhupadas books?? Did he just pull these out of the air? Concoct them?
And what about getting guidance AFTER Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj left his body? This is when he wrote his books.
Everyone knows, Prabhupada’s books and purports are his “devotional ecstasies” and they came from Lord Krishna thru the mercy of his Guru Maharaj, Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj – WHOM HE ONLY MET LESS THAN ONCE A YEAR.
So this whole idea of needing a “LIVING GURU” is rubbish. What is “living” is not the physcial body but the spiritual/vani/instructions which comes thru that body.
“Vibration, what we have heard from the spiritual master, that is living” – Lecture 1/13/69LA
————————————————————–
2) 750203mw.haw Conversations 371412/530501
Devotee (1): We can understand all of your instructions simply by
reading your books.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Anyway, follow the instruction. That is required.
Follow the instruction. Wherever you remain, it doesn’t matter. You are secure. Follow the instruction. Then you are secure anywhere. It doesn’t matter. Just like I told you that I saw my Guru Maharaja not more than ten days in my life, but I followed his instruction. I was a grhastha, I never lived with the Matha, in the temple. It is practical. So many Godbrothers recommended that “He should be in charge in this Bombay temple, this, that, that…” Guru Maharaja said, “Yes, better he lives outside. That is good, and he will do what is needed in due course of time.”
Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!
Srila Prabhupada: He said like that. I could not understand at that time what does he expect. Of course, I knew that he wanted me to preach.
Yasodanandana: I think you have done this in grand style.
Devotees: Jaya, Prabhupada! Haribol!
So here in the above conversation, Srila Prabhupada tells us he was not living with Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj, nor in any Gaudiya matha temple. Rather he lived in his own grhastha ashram far far away from the physcial presence of his Guru Maharaj.
He said,… “wherever you remain, it doesn’t matter. You are secure.” …”It is practical”
Why doesnt it matter?
Because as long as you follow the instructions of your Guru Maharaj, you are SECURE.
You could be living in a “temple”, not following Guru Maharaj, and then you would NOT be secure. So physicality has nothing to do with spiritual life.
It is following the orders of the Guru which are the life force or active principle.
How to live with and hear the spiritual master….
SB 4.28.47
However, the disciple and spiritual master are never separated because the spiritual master always keeps company with the disciple as long as the disciple follows strictly the instructions of the spiritual master. This is called the association of vani (words). Physical presence is called vapuh. As long as the spiritual master is
physically present, the disciple should serve the physical body of the spiritual master, and when the spiritual master is no longer
physically existing, the disciple should serve the instructions of the spiritual master.
How NOT to live with the spiritual master-even in his temple…
750203mw.haw Conversations
Devotee (1): Srila Prabhupada, is it faster if one lives in the temple and goes on the sankirtana party. Is it faster?
Srila Prabhupada: That depends on him. Even in the temple, if his mind is in a different subject matter, then how it will help him?
————————————————————–
3)….Jayatirtha: So the purpose of having the Society is to show the devotees how they can always be twenty-four hours engaged according to your instruction.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is helping one another. If I am deficient, by seeing your example I shall correct myself. This is the idea, not that a fool’s paradise: all fools and join together. Not like that. There should be ideal life, at least the leaders, the president, the GBC.
They will show the example, and they will follow. Then it is beneficial. And all of them are fools? Then it is fool’s paradise. At least, in the blind association, at least if one man has got eyes,
then he can lead all the blind men. But if all of them are blind, then it is fool’s paradise.
————————————————————–
In this conversation with Srila Prabhupada he is saying that if one devotee is deficient in some way, then the others, because they are following Guru, then by their association and example the deficient devotee can be rectified.
This is the basic ritvik system in a nutshell. The ritvik system goes way beyond initiations. Srila Prabhupada expected his disciples to hear what he said, practice it in their own lives, and then teach it to all others. This is basically called a ritvik priest, or one who performs rituals, or shows how the orders of the Acarya and Supreme Personality of Godhead are to be implemented.
And this is how the movement went on while Prabhupada was physically here with us. The TP or local GBC, meeting somewhere with Srila Prabhupada or getting a letter from him, would pass down the orders of Srila Prabhupada, and all the local rank and file devotees would follow those instructions. And the movement grew in leaps and bounds because the orders were being carried out.
Prabhupada was not physically present simultaneously in all of his 108 temples. But he was present simultaneously by his murti, his orders, his instructions and his books.
Prabhupada appointed his leaders to preach in various places throughout the world. They attracted followers who became devotees themselves, and these new devotees preached to others and the system continued in this way until he left the planet.
90% it is said of them, never physically met Srila Prabhupada, and yet they all were and still are making spiritual advancement, they all were following the orders of Guru, therefore they all were situated in spiritual life – without Prabhupada even stepping a foot into their temples.
These simple non corporal concepts of spiritual life, it seems, are way beyond the minds of mundane men and women, who are presently posing as leaders and devotees, otherwise we wouldn’t be having the problem we are having today.
————————————————————–
4) 750716pc.sf Conversations 392307/530501
Reporter (2): Are you training a successor?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, my Guru Maharaja is there. Where is my photo of Guru Maharaja? I think… Here is.
————————————————————–
750212rc.mex Conversations 371869/530501
Guest (2): …to choose a successor.
Srila Prabhupada: It is already successful. Genuine thing is always success.
Gold is gold. If somebody is fortunate, he can purchase gold, but gold remains gold. If somebody purchases and somebody does not, it doesn’t matter. Gold is gold. So future, gold future is always the same as it is at present–if it is gold. If it is something glittering, that is another thing.
Guest (4): But there must be somebody, you know, needed to handle the thing.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that we are creating. We are creating these devotees who will handle.
Hanuman: One thing he’s saying, this gentleman, and I would like to know, is your successor named or your successor will…
Srila Prabhupada: My success is always there. Yes. Just like the sun is there always. It may come before your vision or not. The sun is there.
But if you are fortunate, you come before the sun. Otherwise you remain in darkness. Sun is open to everyone. Our Krishna consciousness movement–Krishna is open to everyone. But if you are fortunate, you come to the light. If you are unfortunate, do not. That is your choice.
————————————————————–
So these two conversations are very interesting. I have always wondered why Prabhupada explained his “successor” as the “Sun” or in the first conversation where he says for who is successor, his Guru maharaj is always there. In both cases, he never said he would name anyone as successor. He did say that, “we are creating these devotees who will handle” ..
Handling an organization is totally different than being its “LEADER”, whom he said, “we have no such thing as here is next leader”. So it is clear from these two conversations that Srila Prabhupada is pointing the questioners to the eternal param para (the Sun) of eternally liberated acaryas as the “successors to the Hare Krishna movement”. These Acaryas will keep the message of Bhagavad gita intact, because they, just like the Sun is always visible – “IF you are fortunate”.
Hare Krishna
your humble servant
Damaghosa das
Obeisances
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
I was just reading the following few pages today in the Make Vrindavana booklet comprised entirely of conversations with Srila Prabhupada.
The below four quotes are only within a few pages of this book. There is so much information in Prabhupada’s statements. These are about guru-tattva… Please read
Hare Krishna
Damaghosa das
————————————————————–
1) 750203mw.haw Conversations 371399/530501
Srila Prabhupada: Sarva-sastre kaya, lava-matra sadhu-sange sarva-siddhi-haya. For me, personally, I had the opportunity to talk with my spiritual master not more than ten times in my whole life, not more.
It may be less than that. But I tried to follow his instruction, that’s all, although I was a grhastha.
————————————————————–
So in the above statement by Srila Prabhupada we hear him saying he was with or heard his Guru Maharaj not more than ten times, maybe less than ten times..
So how was Srila Prabhupada getting instructions (DAILY) from his Guru? Over a span of many years (he met Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj around 1920, and he passed away in 1935). So over the course of 15 years he was with him less than 10 times. So if you want to average it out, to less than once a year assuming ten meetings of the two personalities.
So in those few short times, he got some instructions, the main one we know was, “if you get money print books”, and the other one was, “preach to the English speaking people of the world, it will do good to you and them”. And I am sure there were a few more..
So my point here is this: How was Srila Prabhupada getting daily instruction, guidance, inspiration, etc from a Guru he only met less than once a year?? Could you even run a mundane family/business/temple on one instruction a year? No, of course not. It takes thousands…
And the instructions Prabhupada told us he got were mainly only the above two? Hardly much information for starting a world wide organization one would think? Where did all the extreme details about Krishna Consciousness come from that you will find in Srila Prabhupadas books?? Did he just pull these out of the air? Concoct them?
And what about getting guidance AFTER Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj left his body? This is when he wrote his books.
Everyone knows, Prabhupada’s books and purports are his “devotional ecstasies” and they came from Lord Krishna thru the mercy of his Guru Maharaj, Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj – WHOM HE ONLY MET LESS THAN ONCE A YEAR.
So this whole idea of needing a “LIVING GURU” is rubbish. What is “living” is not the physcial body but the spiritual/vani/instructions which comes thru that body.
“Vibration, what we have heard from the spiritual master, that is living” – Lecture 1/13/69LA
————————————————————–
2) 750203mw.haw Conversations 371412/530501
Devotee (1): We can understand all of your instructions simply by
reading your books.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Anyway, follow the instruction. That is required.
Follow the instruction. Wherever you remain, it doesn’t matter. You are secure. Follow the instruction. Then you are secure anywhere. It doesn’t matter. Just like I told you that I saw my Guru Maharaja not more than ten days in my life, but I followed his instruction. I was a grhastha, I never lived with the Matha, in the temple. It is practical. So many Godbrothers recommended that “He should be in charge in this Bombay temple, this, that, that…” Guru Maharaja said, “Yes, better he lives outside. That is good, and he will do what is needed in due course of time.”
Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!
Srila Prabhupada: He said like that. I could not understand at that time what does he expect. Of course, I knew that he wanted me to preach.
Yasodanandana: I think you have done this in grand style.
Devotees: Jaya, Prabhupada! Haribol!
So here in the above conversation, Srila Prabhupada tells us he was not living with Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj, nor in any Gaudiya matha temple. Rather he lived in his own grhastha ashram far far away from the physcial presence of his Guru Maharaj.
He said,… “wherever you remain, it doesn’t matter. You are secure.” …”It is practical”
Why doesnt it matter?
Because as long as you follow the instructions of your Guru Maharaj, you are SECURE.
You could be living in a “temple”, not following Guru Maharaj, and then you would NOT be secure. So physicality has nothing to do with spiritual life.
It is following the orders of the Guru which are the life force or active principle.
How to live with and hear the spiritual master….
SB 4.28.47
However, the disciple and spiritual master are never separated because the spiritual master always keeps company with the disciple as long as the disciple follows strictly the instructions of the spiritual master. This is called the association of vani (words). Physical presence is called vapuh. As long as the spiritual master is
physically present, the disciple should serve the physical body of the spiritual master, and when the spiritual master is no longer
physically existing, the disciple should serve the instructions of the spiritual master.
How NOT to live with the spiritual master-even in his temple…
750203mw.haw Conversations
Devotee (1): Srila Prabhupada, is it faster if one lives in the temple and goes on the sankirtana party. Is it faster?
Srila Prabhupada: That depends on him. Even in the temple, if his mind is in a different subject matter, then how it will help him?
————————————————————–
3)….Jayatirtha: So the purpose of having the Society is to show the devotees how they can always be twenty-four hours engaged according to your instruction.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is helping one another. If I am deficient, by seeing your example I shall correct myself. This is the idea, not that a fool’s paradise: all fools and join together. Not like that. There should be ideal life, at least the leaders, the president, the GBC.
They will show the example, and they will follow. Then it is beneficial. And all of them are fools? Then it is fool’s paradise. At least, in the blind association, at least if one man has got eyes,
then he can lead all the blind men. But if all of them are blind, then it is fool’s paradise.
————————————————————–
In this conversation with Srila Prabhupada he is saying that if one devotee is deficient in some way, then the others, because they are following Guru, then by their association and example the deficient devotee can be rectified.
This is the basic ritvik system in a nutshell. The ritvik system goes way beyond initiations. Srila Prabhupada expected his disciples to hear what he said, practice it in their own lives, and then teach it to all others. This is basically called a ritvik priest, or one who performs rituals, or shows how the orders of the Acarya and Supreme Personality of Godhead are to be implemented.
And this is how the movement went on while Prabhupada was physically here with us. The TP or local GBC, meeting somewhere with Srila Prabhupada or getting a letter from him, would pass down the orders of Srila Prabhupada, and all the local rank and file devotees would follow those instructions. And the movement grew in leaps and bounds because the orders were being carried out.
Prabhupada was not physically present simultaneously in all of his 108 temples. But he was present simultaneously by his murti, his orders, his instructions and his books.
Prabhupada appointed his leaders to preach in various places throughout the world. They attracted followers who became devotees themselves, and these new devotees preached to others and the system continued in this way until he left the planet.
90% it is said of them, never physically met Srila Prabhupada, and yet they all were and still are making spiritual advancement, they all were following the orders of Guru, therefore they all were situated in spiritual life – without Prabhupada even stepping a foot into their temples.
These simple non corporal concepts of spiritual life, it seems, are way beyond the minds of mundane men and women, who are presently posing as leaders and devotees, otherwise we wouldn’t be having the problem we are having today.
————————————————————–
4) 750716pc.sf Conversations 392307/530501
Reporter (2): Are you training a successor?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, my Guru Maharaja is there. Where is my photo of Guru Maharaja? I think… Here is.
————————————————————–
750212rc.mex Conversations 371869/530501
Guest (2): …to choose a successor.
Srila Prabhupada: It is already successful. Genuine thing is always success.
Gold is gold. If somebody is fortunate, he can purchase gold, but gold remains gold. If somebody purchases and somebody does not, it doesn’t matter. Gold is gold. So future, gold future is always the same as it is at present–if it is gold. If it is something glittering, that is another thing.
Guest (4): But there must be somebody, you know, needed to handle the thing.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that we are creating. We are creating these devotees who will handle.
Hanuman: One thing he’s saying, this gentleman, and I would like to know, is your successor named or your successor will…
Srila Prabhupada: My success is always there. Yes. Just like the sun is there always. It may come before your vision or not. The sun is there.
But if you are fortunate, you come before the sun. Otherwise you remain in darkness. Sun is open to everyone. Our Krishna consciousness movement–Krishna is open to everyone. But if you are fortunate, you come to the light. If you are unfortunate, do not. That is your choice.
————————————————————–
So these two conversations are very interesting. I have always wondered why Prabhupada explained his “successor” as the “Sun” or in the first conversation where he says for who is successor, his Guru maharaj is always there. In both cases, he never said he would name anyone as successor. He did say that, “we are creating these devotees who will handle” ..
Handling an organization is totally different than being its “LEADER”, whom he said, “we have no such thing as here is next leader”. So it is clear from these two conversations that Srila Prabhupada is pointing the questioners to the eternal param para (the Sun) of eternally liberated acaryas as the “successors to the Hare Krishna movement”. These Acaryas will keep the message of Bhagavad gita intact, because they, just like the Sun is always visible – “IF you are fortunate”.
Hare Krishna
your humble servant
Damaghosa das
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