FACTS SHOULD NOT BE MISREPRESENTED

FACTS SHOULD NOT BE MISREPRESENTED.

This is a reply to Dusyanta das whose article http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-13/editorials11136.htm

Dusyanta :“What they did not do was to publish the quotes from Srila Prabhupada's Cc Adi 1.58 and then prove that the Ritvik theory was still applicable, with substantial quotes from Srila Prabhupada”

Mahesh: Dusyanta das you are Soooooo IGNORANT that you just don't get it. THEN you accuse us Prabhupadanugas of calling names. The FACT is you are in TAMO GUNA. Just ACCEPT the TRUTH!!!

10.4-5 P The Opulence of the Absolute

SATYAM, TRUTHFULNESS, MEANS THAT FACTS SHOULD BE PRESENTED AS THEY ARE FOR THE BENEFIT OF OTHERS. FACTS SHOULD NOT BE MISREPRESENTED. According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straight and forward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned that he is a thief, that is truth. ALTHOUGH SOMETIMES THE TRUTH IS UNPALATABLE, ONE SHOULD NOT REFRAIN FROM SPEAKING IT. TRUTHFULNESS DEMANDS THAT THE FACTS BE PRESENTED AS THEY ARE FOR THE BENEFIT OF OTHERS. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF TRUTH.

Anyway, here is an answer QUOTING Adi 1.58 this is done in SPOON-FEED way just like feeding a small baby HOPING Duysanta will get it this time.

Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER'S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. IN HIS ABSENCE, THEREFORE, HIS WORDS OF DIRECTION SHOULD BE THE PRIDE OF THE DISCIPLE.

Note: Srila Prabhupada is THE SPIRITUAL MASTER from WHOSE BOOKS and CDs WE ALL take OUR DISCIPLINE

Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters

GENERALLY A SPIRITUAL MASTER WHO CONSTANTLY INSTRUCTS A DISCIPLE IN SPIRITUAL SCIENCE BECOMES HIS INITIATING SPIRITUAL MASTER LATER ON.

Note: Srila Prabhupada is THAT LIBERTED DEVOTEE WHO APPEARS BEFORE US AS HIS BOOKS, Cds, TAPES means “The preceptor appears before the EXTERNAL SENSES of the fortunate conditioned soul” Books are PHYSICAL so YOU can VISUALISE Srila Prabhuapada as his BOOKS before the external senses THE EYES, and the EARS when you HEAR his Cds, Tapes, mp3's are ALL about application of EXTERNAL SENSES.

Adi 1.58 The Spiritual Masters

Since one cannot visually experience the presence of the Supersoul, He appears before us as A LIBERATED DEVOTEE. Such a spiritual master is none other than Krsna Himself.

PURPORT

It is not possible for a conditioned soul to directly meet Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if one becomes a sincere devotee and seriously engages in devotional service, Lord Krsna sends an instructing spiritual master to show him favor and invoke his dormant propensity for serving the Supreme. The preceptor appears before the EXTERNAL SENSES of the fortunate conditioned soul, and at the same time the devotee is guided from within by the caittya-guru, Krsna, who is seated as the spiritual master within the heart of the living entity.

Note: Srila Prabhupada is THAT POWERFUL MAHA-BHAGAVATA WHO ALWAYS CARRIES THE SUPREME PERSONALITY IF GODHEAD IN HIS HEART:

SB 10.2.18 P Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb

As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was transferred from the core of Vasudeva's mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaki. WE SHOULD NOTE CAREFULLY THAT THE LORD WAS ***TRANSFERRED*** TO DEVAKI NOT BY THE ORDINARY WAY FOR A HUMAN BEING, BUT BY DIKSA, INITIATION. THUS THE IMPORTANCE OF INITIATION IS MENTIONED HERE. UNLESS ONE IS INITIATED BY THE RIGHT PERSON, WHO ALWAYS CARRIES WITHIN HIS HEART THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, ONE CANNOT ACQUIRE THE POWER TO CARRY THE SUPREME GODHEAD WITHIN THE CORE OF ONE'S OWN HEART.

Note: in the Madhyama adhikari stage there is INITIATION ALSO:

Antya 4.192 T Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri

DIKSA-KALE bhakta kare atma-samarpana

sei-kale krsna tare kare atma-sama

Antya 4.192 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri

"AT THE TIME OF INITIATION, when a devotee fully surrenders unto the service of the Lord, Krsna accepts him to be as good as Himself.

Antya 4.193 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri

"When the devotee's body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the devotee, in that transcendental body, renders service to the lotus feet of the Lord.

Antya 4.194 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri

" 'The living entity who is subjected to birth and death, when he gives up all material activities dedicating his life to Me for executing My order, and thus acts according to My direction, AT THAT TIME HE REACHES THE PLATFORM OF IMMORTALITY, and becomes fit to enjoy the spiritual bliss of exchange of loving mellows with Me.'

Antya 4.194 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri

PURPORT

Antya 4.194 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri

This is a quotation from Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.29.34). At the time of INITIATION, a devotee gives up all his material conceptions. Therefore, being in touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is situated on the transcendental platform. THUS HAVING ATTAINED KNOWLEDGE AND THE SPIRITUAL PLATFORM, HE ALWAYS ENGAGES IN THE SERVICE OF THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF KRSNA. WHEN ONE IS FREED FROM MATERIAL CONNECTIONS IN THIS WAY, HIS BODY IMMEDIATELY BECOMES SPIRITUAL, AND KRSNA ACCEPTS HIS SERVICE.

However, Krsna does not accept anything from a person with a material conception of life.

NoI 5

A MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI HAS RECEIVED SPIRITUAL INITIATION FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER AND HAS BEEN FULLY ENGAGED BY HIM IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL LOVING SERVICE OF THE LORD.

Note: Srila Prabhupada is THAT Maha-bhagavata WHO STILL gives INITIATION at MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI STAGE so there is ONLY ONE INITIATOR THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS and Ritvik Representative gives the HOLY NAME ON BEHALF of Srila Prabhupada the ACTUAL INITIATOR.

NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided

The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.

Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse

MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho

brahmano vai gurur nrnam

sarvesam eva lokanam

asau pujyo yatha harih

maha-kula-prasuto 'pi

sarva-yajnesu DIKSITAH

sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca

na guruh syad avaisnavah

((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ....When one has attained the topmost position of MAHA-BHAGAVATA, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru.))

Note The word DIKSITAH refers to Diksa and ONLY Maha Bhagavata is the one mentioned WHO give this BY DEFINITION.

Note: the Initiation refered to HERE below is DIFFERENT from the Initiation given at the STAGE of MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI. The formality of 1st and 2nd initiation is given HERE by RITVIK REPRESENTATIVES on BEHALF OF Srila Prabhupada. Everyone KNEW they were CONDITIONED souls. CONDITIONED SOULS CAN NOT TRASFER KRSNA INTO YOUR HEART HENCE THE FORMALITY OF ONLY 1ST AND 2ND INITATIONS.

761016iv.cha Conversations

Interviewer: What is the procedure of the movement? Do you initiate yourself all the disciples or do your other disciples also do that?

Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) ...knowledge. INITIATION IS FORMALITY. JUST LIKE YOU GO TO A SCHOOL FOR KNOWLEDGE, AND ADMISSION IS FORMALITY. THAT IS NOT VERY IMPORTANT THING.

Srila Prabhupada is the ONE initiator Spiritual Master

KB 80 The Meeting of Lord Krsna with Sudama Brahmana

“If a man is sufficiently educated in student life under the guidance of a proper teacher, then his life becomes successful in the future. He can very easily cross over the ocean of nescience, and he is not subjected to the influence of illusory energy. My dear friend, everyone should consider his father to be his first teacher because by the mercy of one’s father one gets this body. The father is therefore the natural spiritual master. Our next spiritual master is he who initiates us into transcendental knowledge, and he is to be worshiped as much as I am. The spiritual master may be more than one. The spiritual master who instructs the disciples about spiritual matters is called siksa-guru, and the spiritual master who initiates the disciple is called diksa-guru. Both of them are My representatives. There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, BUT THE INITIATOR SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ONE.

Note: WHY these Dusyanta type of people can NOT grasp this VERY simple thing is because he is in TAMO GUNA:

740615rc.par Conversations

Yogesvara: "Is there some, any qualities, in the sense that some people have more receptivity towards the divine than other people?"

Prabhupada: Yes. That I explained, sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna. Those who are in sattva-guna, they can understand easily. Those who are in rajo-guna, they have got difficulty. AND THOSE WHO ARE IN TAMO-GUNA, THEY CANNOT. (French)

You can ONLY be a Disciple of ONE who gives YOU the discipline and ALL the DISCIPLINE is coming FROM Srila Prabhupada

In ISKCON we are ALL being DISCIPLINED by Srila Prabhupada (we receive instructions (DISCIPLINE) FROM Srila Prabhupada's books. Even the most basic discipline, 16 rounds of Hare Krishna Mantra and four Regulative Principles are coming FROM Srila Prabhupada. Common sense -- if you ARE being disciplined BY Srila Prabhupada then it follows you ARE Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. How can it be otherwise?

The MEANING of the word "disciple"

Srila Prabhupada's Morning Walk, March 8, 1976 in Mayapur:

Prabhupada: "Discipline... Disciple means discipline. The word discipline comes from disciple, or disciple comes from discipline. So unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. This discipline must... That should be uniform. Otherwise, sisya... sisya, the word sisya, it comes from the root, verb, sas-dhatu. sas. sas means ruling. From this word, sasana. Sasana means government. sastra. sashtra means weapon, and sastra, scripture, and sisya... These things have come from the one root sas-dhatu. So sas-dhatu means ruling under discipline. There is another English word, that "Obedience is the first law of discipline," or something. They say, "Obedience is the first law of discipline"? So I am right? "Obedience is..."? That is the...

Tamala Krsna: Yes, that's more or less what it is.

Prabhupada: No, what is the word, exact. There is an English word. "Obedience is the first law of discipline." So unless there is obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. DISCIPLE MEANS ONE WHO FOLLOWS DISCIPLINE."

Discipline comes from Srila Prabhupada. We are actually being disciplined by Srila Prabhupada. It is Srila Prabhupada who has given us the regulative principles of no meat, fish or eggs; no intoxication (including tea and coffee), no illicit sex, and no gambling. It is Srila Prabhupada who has made it a regulative principle for us to chant sixteen rounds on the beads HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE /HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.

Srila Prabhupada's books contain all the instructions, the guidance required for us to get ourselves out of the clutches of the modes of material nature. In fact, Srila Prabhupada is personally present as his books.

The Guru HOAX: they were CONDITIONED souls NOT acarya hence NO ORDER:

Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, Bombay, April 22, 1977:

Prabhupada: What is the use of producing some rascal guru?

Tamala Krsna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru. Maybe one day it may be possible...

Prabhupada: Hm.

Tamala Krsna: ...but not now.

Prabhupada: Yes. I shall choose some guru. I shall SAY, "Now you become ACARYA. You become authorized." I am waiting for that. You become all acarya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete.

Note: Guru MUST be on Uttama Adhikari stage. But aside from that he needs an ORDER from his Guru to be ACARYA.

Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan:

Prabhupada: "WHEN I order, "You become guru," he becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That's it."

“When I order” -- NO ORDER WAS GIVEN on the contrary the ONLY instruction that followed TWO months AFTER was as per 9th July 1977, that they were to act in the capacity of Ritvik Representative of Acarya and the disciples initiated would be Srila Prabhupada’s, NOT theirs.

Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita, October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupada: "Try to understand. Don't go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he's ORDERED by his guru. That's all. Otherwise nobody can become guru."

Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Nectar of Devotion, October 31. 1972

"Self-made guru cannot be guru. HE MUST BE AUTHORIZED BY THE BONA FIDE GURU.

Note: As we can clearly see from Tamal Krishna’s earlier comment in April 1977, “Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that we are ALL CONDITIONED souls, so we CANNOT be guru. ”

BUT just AFTER 7 months in NOVEMBER, the departure of Srila Prabhupada, he was deceitful, he CHEATED, thus began the Guru HOAX in ISKCON.