Reply to Rocana Dasa on his COMPLETE MISUNDERSTANDING of BOTH the Guru and Ritvik Issue
This is a REPLY to Rocana Prabhu on his COMPLETE MISUNDERSTANDING of BOTH Guru AND Ritvik Issue:
77-07-09.All Letter: All G.B.C., All Temple Presidents
The
name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative
who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His
Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book.”
Note Srila Prabhupada’s SECRETARY entered the names in the His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book.” It did NOT require VAPU(physical) presence of Srila Prabhupada to do this menial task.
July 7, 1977, Vrndavana
TAMALA KRSNA: YOU KNOW THAT BOOK I'M MAINTAINING OF ALL OF YOUR DISCIPLES' NAMES? SHOULD I CONTINUE THAT?
PRABHUPADA: HM.
TAMALA
KRSNA: SO IF SOMEONE GIVES INITIATION, LIKE HARIKESA MAHARAJA, HE
SHOULD SEND THE PERSON'S NAME TO US HERE AND I'LL ENTER IT IN THE BOOK.
OKAY
Amar Puri Prabhu wrote to Rocana Prabhu and Rocana Prabhu Replies:
“So
who gave you permission, Amar Puri, to decide that the system will be
changed upon his departure so that names get sent to someone else? Or
not sent? Or whatever?” — Rocana
Mahesh:
Srila Prabhupada had ALREADY given instruction of HOW he wanted the
prospective disciples ACCEPTED. The system was ALREADY in place. Besides
this, use of LITTLE COMMON-SENSE is neccesary WHAT sort of person can
REPRESENT Srila Prabhupada. If REPRESENTATIVE OF ACARYA falls down he
CAN be REPLACED:
Note:
OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE is the Ritvik Representative as per July 9th 1977
Order Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
Similarly,
a disciple’s qualifications must be observed by the spiritual master
before he is accepted as a disciple. IN OUR KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS
MOVEMENT, THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT ONE MUST BE PREPARED TO GIVE UP THE
FOUR PILLARS OF SINFUL LIFE-ILLICIT SEX, MEAT-EATING, INTOXICATION AND
GAMBLING. IN WESTERN COUNTRIES ESPECIALLY, WE FIRST OBSERVE WHETHER A
POTENTIAL DISCIPLE IS PREPARED TO FOLLOW THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES. THEN
HE IS GIVEN THE NAME OF A VAISNAVA SERVANT AND INITIATED TO CHANT THE
HARE KRSNA MAHA-MANTRA, AT LEAST SIXTEEN ROUNDS DAILY. In this way the
disciple
renders devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master
OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR. HE IS THEN
RECOMMENDED FOR A SECOND INITIATION, DURING WHICH A SACRED THREAD IS
OFFERED AND THE DISCIPLE IS ACCEPTED AS A BONA FIDE BRAHMANA.
770528me.vrn Conversations
Tamala Krsna: Of course, IF SOMEONE HAS A FALLDOWN, just like in the past some GBC men have fallen down…
Prabhupada: HE SHOULD BE REPLACED.
Tamala Krsna: Then he should be replaced. But that’s a serious falldown, not some minor discrepancy.
Prabhupada:
THEY MUST BE ALL IDEAL ACARYA-LIKE. IN THE BEGINNING WE HAVE DONE FOR
WORKING. Now we should be very cautious. ANYONE WHO IS DEVIATING, HE CAN
BE REPLACED.
One
can replace a Representative of Acarya if he deviates BUT one can NOT
replace DIKSA Guru because he MUST be a Mahabhagavata OTHERWISE he is
NOT DIKSA GURU. It is 3rd offense in chanting to accept any other than a
Mahabhagavata:
NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) TO DISOBEY THE ORDERS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER.
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu diksitah
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah
((The
guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service.
There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from
the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for
all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of
maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly
like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY SUCH A PERSON IS ELIGIBLE TO
OCCUPY THE POST OF A GURU.))
Rocana Dasa in his “Church of Rtvik”:
NOI 5
“One
should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the
platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated
on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such
disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that
they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under
his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to
accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.” (NOI5)
“Nectar of Instruction, Text 5
If
one reads the above Purport, which contains the statement used by the
HKS to support their position, it is clear that Srila Prabhupada is
suggesting that a guru should ideally be an uttama-adhikari. We have to
keep in mind, however, the fact that Srila Prabhupada is Himself an
uttama-adhikari and a Sampradaya Acarya. At the time Nectar of
Instruction was published, the reader had a choice to take initiation
directly from Srila Prabhupada. But Srila Prabhupada also clearly says
in this quote that there are gurus in all three categories: kanistha,
madhyama, and uttama-adhikari. He does not state that he is referring
here to diksa gurus rather than siksa gurus. He does state that the
problem with having a guru that is
not uttama-adhikari is that the initiated can’t advance beyond the
level of their guru’s realization. Consequently, he cautions that the
disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as their guru.
He does not say, however, that gurus in the other two categories are
bogus, or are not part of the sampradaya, or are just pretending to be
gurus but are actually not gurus. Clearly, the Hare Krishna Society
would like you believe that he is saying these things. While it is
absolutely true that there is no Sampradaya Acarya who has ever fallen
down, and that certain things disqualify a diksa guru, they cannot make
the case that Srila Prabhupada has instructed that one must never accept
a kanistha or madhyama as diksa guru. ”
Mahesh:
we will just take a segment of his ERRONEOUS understanding of the DIKSA
Guru AND PROVE HIM COMPELETELY WRONG THAT KANISTHA AND MADHYAMA ARE
**NOT** DIKSA GURU as he SPECULATES:
Rocana
Dasa: “While it is absolutely true that there is no Sampradaya Acarya
who has ever fallen down, and that certain things disqualify a diksa
guru, they cannot make the case that Srila Prabhupada has instructed
that one must never accept a kanistha or madhyama as diksa guru. ”
Mahesh:
NOI 5
“One
should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the
platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated
on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such
disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that
they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under
his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to
accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.” (NOI5)
Some
devotees are taking this above quote to mean that Kanistha can give
Diksa. This is NOT what Srila Prabhupada says. There is NO mention of
Diksa by kanistha. What it exactly says is about accepting DISCIPLES.
Then suggests very strongly 2 points:
1)”..they
cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his
insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept
an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.”
2)“One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari.
The question is can a Kanistha give DIKSA from this quote? The answer is NO!
So how can we establish that Kanistha does NOT give diksa?
Kanistha
is a QUALIFIED Brahmana. But even such a QUALIFIED Brahmana is in
MATERIAL CONTAMINATION. And because he has MATERIAL CONTAMINATION he
does NOT have Transcendental Knowledge. What you do NOT have you can NOT
give. And it is Transcendental Knowledge that frees one from ALL
MATERIAL CONTAMINATION.
Definition of Diksa:
Madhya 15.108 The Lord Accepts Prasada at the House of Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya
Srila Jiva Gosvami explains diksa in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283):
divyam jnanam yato dadyat
kuryat papasya sanksayam
tasmad dikseti sa prokta
desikais tattva-kovidaih
“Diksa
is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and
vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in
the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa.”
Madhya 4.111 Sri Madhavendra Puri’ s Devotional Service
Diksa
actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by
which he becomes freed from all material contamination.
So here we see from above definition of Diksa quotes:
1) Transcendental Knowledge awakened, initiated
2) becomes freed from all material contamination; vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity
Now
ask a simple question HOW can a Brahmana(Kanistha) who is NOT freed
from MATERIAL CONTAMINATION GIVE DIKSA -BY WHICH- ONE BECOMES FREED FROM
**ALL** MATERIAL CONTAMINATION?
Just take a look at how contradictory and stupid this looks:
Q1) HOW can a Brahmana (Kanistha) who is HIMSELF material contaminated free another person from **ALL** MATERIAL CONTAMINATION?
SB 9.19.25 P King Yayati Achieves Liberation
The
word vidhuta, meaning “cleansed,” is very significant. Everyone in this
material world is contaminated (karanam guna-sango ‘sya). Because we
are in a material condition, we are contaminated either by sattva-guna,
by rajo-guna or by tamo-guna. Even if one becomes a qualified brahmana
in the mode of goodness (sattva-guna), he is still materially
contaminated. One must come to the platform of suddha-sattva,
transcending the sattva-guna. Then one is vidhuta-trilinga, cleansed of
the contamination caused by the three modes of material nature.
Q2) If a Brahmana(Kanistha) had Transcendental Knowledge then why is contaminated by goodness(sattva-guna)?
Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity.
Diksa
actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by
which he becomes freed from all material contamination
Q3)
So HOW can a Kanistha(Brahmana) who HIMSELF is material contaminated
does NOT have Transcendental Knowledge give another person
Transcendental Knowledge to free him?
Common-sense: What you do NOT have you CAN NOT give to others.
770214r2.may Conversations
Prabhupada:
Vaisnava is not so easy. The varnasrama-dharma should be established to
become a Vaisnava. It is not so easy to become Vaisnava.
Hari-sauri: No, it’s not a cheap thing.
Prabhupada:
Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava, is
not so easy. If Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava is so easy, why so many
fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyasa is for the highest
qualified brahmana. And simply by dressing like a Vaisnava, that is…
fall down.
Hari-sauri: So the varnasrama system is like for the kanisthas, Kanistha-adhikari.
Prabhupada: Kanistha?
Hari-sauri: When one is only on the platform of neophyte.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Kanistha-adhikari, yes.
Hari-sauri: Varnasrama system is beneficial.
Prabhupada:
Kanistha-adhikari means he must be a brahmana. That is
kanistha-adhikari. The spiritual life, kanistha-adhikari, means he must
be a qualified brahmana. That is kanistha. What is esteemed as very high
position in the material world, brahmana, that is kanistha-adhikari.
arcayam eva haraye
pujam yah sraddhayehate
na tad-bhaktesu canyesu
sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah
The
brahmana means from the material stage gradually he is elevated to the
spiritual stage. And below the brahmana there is no question of
Vaisnava.
Hari-sauri: No question of?
Prabhupada: Vaisnavism.
760206mw.may Conversations
Dayananda: But what about the persons who may be a little bit devoted but who have not achieved that unalloyed devotion?
Prabhupada:
Kanistha-adhikari. They are not devotees, but they are called
bhaktabhasa. There is some signs of bhakti. Actually they are not
bhakta. Bhaktabhasa. Abhasa. Abhasa means a simple, a little light.
Hrdayananda: So devotee really means one who has love for Krsna.
Prabhupada:
Yes, unalloyed, without any condition. Anyabhilasita-sunyam, zero, all
other, that “I am this, I am that, I am jnani, I am yogi, I am karmi, I
am minister, I am king”--all these are thinking like that, they’re all
nonsense. “I am servant of Krsna”--that is greatness. Jivera
svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa. That is self-realization, atma-tattvam.
Madhya 20.59 Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Instructs Sanatana Gosvami in the Science
PURPORT
This
verse is spoken by Prahlada Maharaja in Srimad-Bhagavatam (7.9.10). A
brahmana is supposed to be qualified with twelve qualities. As stated in
the Mahabharata:
dharmas ca satyam ca damas tapas ca
amatsaryam hris titiksanasuya
yajnas ca danam ca dhrtih srutam ca
vratani vai dvadasa brahmanasya
“A
brahmana must be perfectly religious. He must be truthful, and he must
be able to control his senses. He must execute severe austerities, and
he must be detached, humble and tolerant. He must not envy anyone, and
he must be expert in performing sacrifices and giving whatever he has in
charity. He must be fixed in devotional service and expert in the
knowledge of the Vedas. These are the twelve qualifications for a
brahmana.”
Bhagavad-gita describes the brahminical qualities in this way:
samo damas tapah saucam
ksantir arjavam eva ca
jnanam vijnanam astikyam
brahma-karma svabhava-jam
“Peacefulness,
self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge,
and religiousness--these are the qualities by which the brahmanas
work.” (Bg. 18.42)
In the Muktaphala-tika, it is said:
samo damas tapah saucam
ksanty-arjava-virakta yah
jnana-vijnana-santosah
satyastikye dvisad gunah
“Mental
equilibrium, sense control, austerity, cleanliness, tolerance,
simplicity, detachment, theoretical and practical knowledge,
satisfaction, truthfulness and firm faith in the Vedas are the twelve
qualities of a brahmana.”
730828BG.LON Lectures
So
first of all, we have to become brahmana. Then Vaisnava. Brahmana
simply knows that “I am spirit soul,” aham brahmasmi. Brahma janati iti
brahmana. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. By such knowledge one becomes
prasannatma. Means relieved. As you feel relief… When there is burden on
your head, and the burden is taken away you feel relieved, similarly,
this ignorance that “I am this body” is a great burden, a burden upon
us. So when you get out of this burden, then you feel relieved.
Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. Means when actually one understands that “I
am not this body; I am soul,” then he has to work so hard for
maintaining this body, so he gets relief that “Why I am working so hard
for this lump of material things? Let me execute my real necessity of
life, spiritual life.” That is great relief. That is great relief.
Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati. The relief means there
is hankering, no more lamentation. These are the brahma-bhutah.
SB 1.2.20 P Divinity and Divine Service
The
very same thing is confirmed herein in the above words. No ordinary
man, or even one who has attained success in human life, can know
scientifically or perfectly the Personality of Godhead. Perfection of
human life is attained when one can understand that he is not the
product of matter but is in fact spirit. And as soon as one understands
that he has nothing to do with matter, he at once ceases his material
hankerings and becomes enlivened as a spiritual being. This attainment
of success is possible when one is above the modes of passion and
ignorance, or, in other words, when one is actually a brahmana by
qualification. A BRAHMANA IS THE SYMBOL OF SATTVA-GUNA, OR THE MODE
OF GOODNESS. AND OTHERS, WHO ARE NOT IN THE MODE OF GOODNESS, ARE
EITHER KSATRIYAS, VAISYAS, SUDRAS OR LESS THAN THE SUDRAS. THE
BRAHMINICAL STAGE IS THE HIGHEST STAGE OF HUMAN LIFE BECAUSE OF ITS GOOD
QUALITIES. SO ONE CANNOT BE A DEVOTEE UNLESS ONE AT LEAST QUALIFIES AS A
BRAHMANA. The devotee is already a brahmana by action. But that is not
the end of it. AS REFERRED TO ABOVE, SUCH A BRAHMANA HAS TO BECOME A
VAISNAVA IN FACT TO BE ACTUALLY IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL STAGE. A PURE
VAISNAVA IS A LIBERATED SOUL AND IS TRANSCENDENTAL EVEN TO THE POSITION
OF A BRAHMANA. IN THE MATERIAL STAGE EVEN A BRAHMANA IS ALSO A
CONDITIONED SOUL BECAUSE ALTHOUGH IN THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE THE
CONCEPTION OF BRAHMAN OR TRANSCENDENCE IS REALIZED, SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE
OF THE SUPREME LORD IS LACKING. ONE HAS TO SURPASS THE BRAHMINICAL
STAGE AND REACH THE VASUDEVA STAGE TO UNDERSTAND THE PERSONALITY OF
GODHEAD KRSNA.
Divya-jnana means : Divya TRANSCENDENTAL and Jnana means KNOWLEDGE
So
UNLESS one is on TRANSCENDENTAL PLATFORM means Uttama Adhikari (Maha
Bhagavata) there can NOT be any question of Transcendental Knowledge of
ones CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION coming FROM him. THIS EFFECTIVLY
DISQUALIFIES KANISTHA AND MADHYAM (MIDDLE STAGE) FROM GIVING DIKSA --
AUTOMATICALLY.
Hrde
means heart and Prokasito means revealed just as in prakasa –
manifested Krsna becomes manifest in the heart of the Pure Devotee.
760711CC.NY Lectures
Prabhupada:
Divya-jnana hrde prokasito. What is that divya-jnana? Divya-jnana is
that we are all servant of Krsna, and our only business is to serve
Krsna. Divya-jnana. This is divya-jnana. It is not difficult at all.
Simply we have… We have become servant of so many things--servant of
society, servant of community, servant of country, servant of wife,
servant of children, servant of dog and so many. “Now let me become
servant of Krsna.” This is divya-jnana. Diksa. Diksa means from this
divya-jnana. That is di. And ksa means ksapayati, expands.
When
at the stage of Madhyama Adhikari one is RECEPIENT of THAT Diksa in the
HEART from SRILA PRABHUPADA he becomes a SERVANT OF KRSNA. He relishes a
particular mellow (Rasa) of his relationship with Krsna. This point HE
SEES KRSNA and HIS RELATIONSHIP (svarupa) is established. So it is not
so CHEAP to be Diksa guru.
Madhya 8.83 Talks Between Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Ramananda Raya
The
purport in presenting this verse necessitates explaining the
comparative positions of the transcendental mellows known as santa,
dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya. All these rasas, or mellows, are
situated on the transcendental platform. Pure devotees take shelter of
one of them and thus progress in spiritual life. Actually one can take
shelter of such spiritual mellows only when one is completely
uncontaminated by material attachment. When one is completely free from
material attachment, the feelings of the transcendental mellows are
awakened in the heart of the devotee. That is svarupa-siddhi, the
perfection of one’s eternal relationship
with the Supreme Lord. Svarupa-siddhi, the eternal relationship with
the Supreme Lord, may be situated in one of the transcendental mellows.
Note:
When Krsna is TRANSFERRED FROM Pure devotees HEART to another Pure
devotee then there is DIKSA. Divya jnana revealtion of ones
CONSTITUTIONAL positon Svarupa is UNDERSTOOD. This may take many many
many births -- NOT so cheap.
SB 10.2.18 P Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb
As
indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead
was transferred from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core
of the heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was
transferred to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by
diksa, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here.
Unless one is initiated by the right person, who always carries within
his heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the
power to carry the Supreme Godhead within the core of one’s own heart.
NoI 5
A
madhyama-adhikari has received spiritual initiation from the spiritual
master and has been fully engaged by him in the transcendental loving
service of the Lord.
Antya 4.192 T Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri
diksa-kale bhakta kare atma-samarpana
sei-kale krsna tare kare atma-sama
TRANSLATION
“At
the time of initiation, when a devotee fully surrenders unto the
service of the Lord, Krsna accepts him to be as good as Himself.
TEXT 193
sei deha kare tara cid-ananda-maya
aprakrta-dehe tanra carana bhajaya
TRANSLATION
“When
the devotee’s body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the
devotee, in that transcendental body, renders service to the lotus feet
of the Lord.
TEXT 194
martyo yada tyakta-samasta-karma
niveditatma vicikirsito me
tadamrtatvam pratipadyamano
mayatma-bhuyaya ca kalpate vai
TRANSLATION
”
‘The living entity who is subjected to birth and death, when he gives
up all material activities dedicating his life to Me for executing My
order, and thus acts according to My direction, at that time he reaches
the platform of immortality, and becomes fit to enjoy the spiritual
bliss of exchange of loving mellows with Me.’
PURPORT
This
is a quotation from Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.29.34). At the time of
initiation, a devotee gives up all his material conceptions. Therefore,
being in touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is situated
on the transcendental platform. Thus having attained knowledge and the
spiritual platform, he always engages in the service of the spiritual
body of Krsna. When one is freed from material connections in this way,
his body immediately becomes spiritual, and Krsna accepts His service.
However, Krsna does not accept anything from a person with a material
conception of life. When a devotee no longer has any desire for material
sense gratification, in his spiritual identity he engages in the
service of the Lord, for his
dormant spiritual consciousness awakens. This awakening of spiritual
consciousness makes his body spiritual, and thus he becomes fit to
render service to the Lord. Karmis may consider the body of a devotee
material, but factually it is not, for a devotee has no conception of
material enjoyment. If one thinks that the body of a pure devotee is
material, he is an offender, for that is a vaisnava-aparadha. In this
connection one should consult Srila Sanatana Gosvami’s
Brhad-bhagavatamrta (1.3.45 and 2.3.139).
Note: It is SUCCESSION MEANS to SUCCEED:
SB 3.29.17 P Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila
In
Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should
execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual
knowledge by accepting the acarya. Acaryopasanam: one should worship an
acarya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. The spiritual
master must be in the disciplic succession from Krsna. The predecessors
of the spiritual master are his spiritual master, his grand spiritual
master, his great-grand spiritual master and so on, who form the
disciplic succession of acaryas.
NOTE:
It is ONLY ACARYA that can give DIKSA because even in NOD this is
stated REGARDING ACCEPTING INITIATION from the spiritual master it
refers to SB 11.17.27 which is ACARYA.
Nectar of Devotion 7 -- Evidence Regarding Devotional Principles
REGARDING
ACCEPTING INITIATION from the spiritual master, in the Eleventh Canto
of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Seventeenth Chapter, verse 27, it is stated by
Lord Krsna, “My dear Uddhava, the spiritual master must be accepted not
only as My representative, but as My very self. He must never be
considered on the same level with an ordinary human being. One should
never be envious of the spiritual master, as one may be envious of an
ordinary man. The spiritual master should always be seen as the
representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and by serving the
spiritual master one is able to serve all the demigods.”
Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.7.15 Purport -- Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati:
“By
the mercy of the spiritual master one is benedicted by the mercy of
Krsna. Without the grace of the spiritual master, one cannot make any
advancement.” A disciple should never be a hypocrite or be unfaithful to
his spiritual master. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.17.27), THE SPIRITUAL
MASTER IS ALSO CALLED ACARYA. Acaryam mam vijaniyan: the Supreme
Personality of Godhead says that one should respect the spiritual
master, accepting him as the Lord Himself. Navamanyeta karhicit: one
should not disrespect the acarya at any time. Na martya-buddhyasuyeta:
one should never think the acarya an ordinary person. Familiarity
sometimes breeds contempt, but one should be very careful in one’s
dealings with the acarya.
Agadha-dhisanam dvijam: the acarya is a perfect brahmana and has
unlimited intelligence in guiding the activities of his disciple.
Note:Divya
means Transcendental so HOW can a person who is NOT on Transcendental
Knowledge platform give Transcendental Knowledge (Krsna) to another?
Even a Madhyama Adhikari is MIDWAY. Only Uttama Adhikari is Transcendental.
‘uttama-adhikari’ sei taraye samsara(Cc. Madhya 22.65)
Uttama Adhikari delivers by definition.
When
Krsna is TRANSFERRED to your HEART from Srila Prabhupada this is DIKSA
your sinful activities are VANQUISHED because you SEE Krsna and YOUR
relationship (Svarupa) is established with Krsna.
Note: ONE INITIATOR Srila Prabhupda.There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, but the initiator spiritual master is one.
KB 80 The Meeting of Lord Krsna with Sudama Brahmana
Our
next spiritual master is he who initiates us into transcendental
knowledge, and he is to be worshiped as much as I am. The spiritual
master may be more than one. The spiritual master who instructs the
disciples about spiritual matters is called siksa-guru, and the
spiritual master who initiates the disciple is called diksa-guru. Both
of them are My representatives. There may be many spiritual masters who
instruct, but the initiator spiritual master is one.
75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa:
The
GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am in the initiator guru, and
you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and
doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come
to this platform. This I want.
Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12/3/1968
I
am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and all the members of the
Society, they’re supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and
regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me
spiritually.
Furthermore,
here is my reply to Dusyanta Dasa which shows clearly that VAPU is NOT
necessary and since Rocana Prabhu is Vapuvadi ALSO this will point his
ERROR in understanding that VAPU (Physical form) of Srila Prabhupada is
NOT necessary to TRANSMIT Diksa (DIVYA JNANA):
Duysanta
dasa: The ritviks pretend to have a Diksa relationship with Srila
Prabhupada after He has disappeared where as Srila Prabhupada has
instructed to serve His vani after he has disappeared, its an eternal
constant. So if you did not serve Srila Prabhupada’s vapuh how can you
have a Diksa relationship????Diksa is a personal relationship with a
Diksa Guru not with a Book.
Mahesh:
This is another concoction from your Vapuvadi camp. WHERE does Srila
Prabhupada say in his books that VAPU (physical form) is requirement for
TRANSMISSION of Divya Jnana(Diksa)? Go on prove it Prabhu – we want
evidence from Srila Prabhupada’s books ONLY.
SB 2.9.8 P Answers by Citing the Lord’ s Version
The potency of transcendental sound is never minimized because the vibrator is apparently absent.
Note:In
any case what the Vapuvadi camp got was FORMALITY INITIATION which
Srila Prabhupada states is “That is not very important thing”. But the
Vapuvadi camp want to make it that THIS is the main thing.
761016iv.cha Conversations
Prabhupada:
Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break)
…knowledge. INITIATION IS FORMALITY. JUST LIKE YOU GO TO A SCHOOL FOR
KNOWLEDGE, AND ADMISSION IS FORMALITY. THAT IS NOT VERY IMPORTANT THING.
SB 4.8.54 P Dhruva Maharaja Leaves Home for the Forest
Srimad
Viraraghava Acarya, an acarya in the disciplic succession of the
Ramanuja-sampradaya, has remarked in his commentary that candalas, or
conditioned souls who are born in lower than sudra families, can also be
initiated according to circumstances. THE FORMALITIES MAY BE SLIGHTLY
CHANGED HERE AND THERE TO MAKE THEM VAISNAVAS.
Note:
another thing is this FORMALITY INITIATION (1st and 2nd initiation) was
conducted by representatives in many cases. So Srila Prabhupada was NOT
EVEN at each and every place for fire sacrifice and name giving. Not
only that BUT even the Gayatri Mantra was given in Tape and the
instruction was given t o Temple Presidents.
Duysanta
dasa: The relationship with Lord Krsna in His Bhagavad-Gita form is
Shiksa Guru not Diksa Guru. So after Srila Prabhupada disappeared He is
only available in His Vani form , His Book form as Shiksa Guru.You dont
have a Diksa Guru relationship after the disappearance.
Mahesh:
So now YOU Vapuvadi camp must hunt for another Diksa guru according to
your OWN statement Srila Prabhupada disappeared: “So after Srila
Prabhupada disappeared He is only available in His Vani form , His Book
form as Shiksa Guru.You dont have a Diksa Guru relationship after the
disappearance.” These Vapuvadis have ZERO level of understanding on
DIKSA.
Duysanta
dasa: All you all did was to quote what the PROCESS of Diksa is-no
problem. But what about your Diksa relationship serving Vapuh. When you
serve Vani its Shiksa relationship. You have mixed up the types of
relationships with the different Gurus when they are in their vapuh and
when they are in their Vani.
Where does it say Shiksa Gurus dont take sins?
What
is the point in being so judgemental and agressive ,how is that a
Vaisnava quality or are you just conditioned soul yourselves?Try to be
more cool, better to have a cool head.
Mahesh:
That is your concocted opinion from Vapuvadi camp. You have to prove
that Srila Prabhupada’s physically presence( Vapu) is required to give
Diksa. Prove it from Srila Prabhupada’s books.
Adi 1.99 The Spiritual Masters
One
of the bhagavatas is the great scripture Srimad-Bhagavatam, and the
other is the pure devotee absorbed in the mellows of loving devotion.
Adi 1.100 The Spiritual Masters
Through
the actions of THESE TWO BHAGAVATAS THE LORD INSTILLS THE MELLOWS OF
TRANSCENDENTAL LOVING SERVICE INTO THE HEART OF A LIVING BEING, and thus
the Lord, in the heart of His devotee, comes under the control of the
devotee’s love.
Note:Does it say VAPU is the requirement – NO! Vapuvadis have CONCOCTED you need VAPU for transmission of DIKSA
SB 1.7.22 P The Son of Drona Punished
The
spiritual master, BY HIS WORDS, CAN PENETRATE INTO THE HEART OF THE
SUFFERING PERSON AND INJECT KNOWLEDGE TRANSCENDENTAL, which alone can
extinguish the fire of material existence.
Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
THERE
IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE
SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. In his absence, therefore, his words of
direction should be the pride of the disciple.
690113LE.LA Lectures
Similarly,
arcye sila-dhir gurusu na… Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to
accept their body as ordinary man’s body, this is denied in the sastras.
SO ALTHOUGH A PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT PRESENT, THE VIBRATION SHOULD BE
ACCEPTED AS THE PRESENCE OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, VIBRATION. WHAT WE
HAVE HEARD FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, THAT IS LIVING.
Note:
It is FACTUALLY Srila Prabhupada who CONSTANTLY INSTRUCTS us through
his books , tapes, cds. “becomes his initiating spiritual master later
on.” indicates the position of Srila Prabhupada as the INITIATOR.
Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
Generally
a spiritual master who CONSTANTLY INSTRUCTS a disciple in spiritual
science becomes his initiating spiritual master later on.
Note:
Why the Vapuvadis can NOT grasp that there is no requirement for Srila
Prabhupada’s physical presence to transmit diksa is because they are in
mode of IGNORANCE(TAMO GUNA):
740615rc.par Conversations
Yogesvara:
“Is there some, any qualities, in the sense that some people have more
receptivity towards the divine than other people?”
Prabhupada: Yes.
That I explained, sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna. Those who are in
sattva-guna, they can understand easily. Those who are in rajo-guna,
they have got difficulty. AND THOSE WHO ARE IN TAMO-GUNA, THEY CANNOT.
72-12-14. Letter: Tusta Krsna
Next
you ask if I am present in my picture and form? Yes. In form as well as
in teachings. To carry out the teachings of guru is more important than
to worship the form, but none of them should be neglected. Form is
called vapu and teachings is called vani. Both should be worshiped. Vani
is MORE important than vapu.
EVEN
A SLIGHT COMMON-SENSE CAN TELL YOU THAT (DIKSA) DIVYA (TRANSCENDENTAL)
JNANA CAN ONLY COME FROM TRANSCENDENTAL PERSON. Kanistha is NOT on
TRANSCENDENTAL platform. Madhyama is MIDWAY and Uttama Adhikari is
TRANSCENDENTAL BY DEFINITION:
661121BG.NY Lectures
And
uttamam. Uttamam means “which is transcendental.” Ut means “trans-,”
and tama means “darkness.” So uttama means “the knowledge which is
beyond this material darkness.” This material world is called darkness,
and when the knowledge surpasses this material world, material
knowledge, that is really called uttama.
760420BG.MEL Lectures
Pavitram idam uttamam. Uttamam. Ut mean udgata, transcendental, and tama means this material world, darkness.
“We
request you to chant HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE
HARE, HARE RAMA HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA HARE HARE, and your life will be
sublime.”
“In Dvapara-yuga, devotees of Lord Vishnu and Krishna rendered devotional service according to the principles of pancharatrika.
In this Age of Kali, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is worshiped
simply by the chanting of His holy names. » Srila Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati Thakura then comments: “Without being empowered by the
direct potency of Lord Krishna to fulfill His desire and without being
specifically favored by the Lord, NO HUMAN BEING CAN BECOME THE
SPIRITUAL MASTER OF THE WHOLE WORLD. He certainly cannot
succeed by mental concoction, which is not meant for devotees or
religious people. Only an empowered personality can distribute the holy
name of the Lord and enjoin all fallen souls to worship Krishna. By
distributing the holy name of the Lord, he cleanses the hearts of the
most fallen people; therefore he extinguishes the blazing fire of the
material world. Not only that, he broadcasts the shining
brightness of Krishna’s effulgence throughout the world. Such an
acharya, or spiritual master, should be considered nondifferent from
Krishna - that is, he should be considered the incarnation of Lord
Krishna’s potency. Such a personality is krsnalingita-vigraha - that is, he is always embraced by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna. Such a person is above the considerations of the varnashrama institution. HE IS THE GURU OR SPIRITUAL MASTER FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD, A DEVOTEE ON THE TOPMOST PLATFORM, THE MAHA-BHAGAVATA STAGE, AND A PARAMAHAMSA-THAKURA, A SPIRITUAL FORM ONLY FIT TO BE ADDRESSED AS PARAMAHAMSA OR THAKURA.”