Wednesday 30 January 2013

Preaching the truth - by Srila Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj

By: 
Dama Ghosha Dasa (Seattle, USA)
We just received the following from Sri Krishna Kathamrita Bindu, a fortnightly journal - It is instructions by both Srila Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj about preaching the truth - however unpalatable it may be... interesting points they both make - one can see why Prabhupada told us that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj was called the simha (lion)  guru!!
Pleasing Krishna Practically
 
by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
 
Regarding your questions, your first question was: Should a devotee always speak the truth to everyone in all circumstances? The answer is yes. One should always speak the truth. But a qualified devotee will be able to speak the truth very palatably to everyone so that it will sound pleasing even to his enemy. That is the art of speaking the truth. We must speak the truth to all people, but how you say it is another thing, satyam bruyat, priyam bruyat. When you become a little more experienced in Krishna consciousness by preaching, and if you are sincere and serious to make progress in spiritual understanding, you need not have to worry yourself further, because the truth will always be spoken by you in the proper manner.
 
Krishna will give you that intelligence; you need not be concerned for it. Simply try to please him always by your sincere service and chanting. That’s all. Of course, for doing business with businessmen you have to lie. Just like Krishna himself, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, sometimes he also had to fabricate something in emergency situations. Although he promised not to interfere in the battle of Kurukshetra, he was forced to break his promise just to save his pure devotee. So there is no prohibition that one shall never tell lie, because for business of carrying our propaganda work sometimes it may be necessary to lie. Krishna consciousness means practical living, not something utopian or idealistic and vague. We simply do the needful, whatever pleases Krishna most. That’s all. 
 
Gradually you will understand what it means to please Krishna and what it means to displease Krishna. That you will learn by studying our books and by yourself engaging in practical devotional service. In material dealings there is always something undesirable, but even so, you cannot give up your occupation. Just like fire is very pure, but still there is some smoke. You cannot avoid it. All these things can be rectified when the result is offered to Krishna. Otherwise, even though you may do very honest business, it has no utility whatsoever.
 
— Letter to Yajneshwar, January 2, 1972. 
 
Preaching Boldly
 
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur
 
Question: How should we preach to ordinary people?
 
Answer: Human beings carry a variety of diseases, and each needs to be treated individually. Unless the disease is properly diagnosed, proper treatment cannot be administered and the ailment will not be cured. A platform speaker cannot do much for most sick people. He can give only token relief. I have not found anyone sincerely interested in Krishna consciousness for forty years. Now, whoever comes to me is not interested in hearing hari-katha. They are not ready to give up their dependence on their own education and intelligence. In this world, people like to become popular; they do not like to inquire about the Absolute Truth. Those who claim to be religious preachers are busy trying to protect their own existence by flattering others. By speaking and hearing the truth, one’s popularity is unlikely to be enhanced. Therefore, we are not interested in the sympathy or support of ordinary people who are averse to the Lord. 
 
Question: Should we boldly speak the truth?
 
Answer: Without cheating anyone we should boldly speak the truth to everyone. If the truth is bitter or unpopular but bestows blessings on the living entities, we must speak it. This will not ultimately cause them anxiety. We ourselves should inquire about the Absolute Truth, and then we should try to understand how to help everyone else. Giving Krishna consciousness to others requires firm determination. Do not think of saving only the people of the present age. Think of the people in all ages and all times. Teach about the most pleasant kingdom of Vaikuntha, the place from which no one ever returns to this material world. 
 
If you want to preach transcendence, it is vital that you yourself have taken shelter at the lotus feet of your spiritual master. Always serve the spiritual master who imparts to you transcendental knowledge. Even if you live at home instead of in the matha, we should all serve him together. We should also maintain the Lord and his devotees in opulent houses with comfortable atmospheres, and we ourselves should live in ordinary cottages. If we feed Krishna nicely, rather than enjoying things for ourselves, we will attain his mercy. Always remember that everything belongs to Krishna. Our lives will become successful only when we use everything in this world in his service. However, before preaching these instructions we must live them.
 
Unless we speak the truth boldly we cannot please guru and Gauranga. The more determined one is in devotional service, the bolder and more courageous he will be as a preacher. If I fail to speak the impartial truth because I might become unpopular, I have certainly abandoned the path of my disciplic succession and accepted an unauthorized path. In the end I will either find myself cheated or will become an atheist. 
 
Question: Why were the mathas established?
 
Answer: The mathas were not established to favor ordinary people but to help pure devotees advance in spiritual life. We serve Lord Gauranga simply by performing sri-krsna-sankirtana. The Bhagavatam verse (11.5.32) yajnaih sankirtana prayair yajanti hi sumedhasah supports this idea. The example set by Shri Krishna’s Gaura pastimes is the only auspicious way to perfection for the jivas. The mathas have not been established to please bhogis or tyagis. They have been established to preach pure devotional service. We receive blessings as we serve Hari by establishing mathas. Our intention is not to collect one or two rupees to benefit the matha. We should not be eager to take help from unscrupulous people. Rather, if we can benefit anyone by speaking the bold truth, then the matha’s purpose is served.
 
People will often play tricks on us. We should consider such tricks as the Lord’s test. It is difficult to cross beyond insurmountable maya unless we are greatly fortunate. Mayavadis and bhogis are both conditioned souls. By the mercy of Krishna’s devotees, persons who surrender to Hari can discriminate between good and bad, right and wrong. Know for certain that being drawn by the enjoying spirit, many people cannot realize the Absolute Truth. 
 
Question: Should we glorify Hari constantly?
 
Answer: Mahaprabhu taught kirtaniya sada harih, that we should always chant the holy name of Hari. The word “sada” leaves no room for interruption. Human beings have no work or duty other than to glorify Hari. Hari should be glorified even to birds and animals. We do not care if the ignorant call us mad or fools. We will constantly propagate hari-katha under the order and guidance of our spiritual master and Lord Gauranga. In order to hear mundane topics, people read daily newspapers and remain ever absorbed in worldly matters. Our proposition is to let everyone hear about Chaitanya Mahaprabhu every day. Let them discuss Chaitanya whenever they meet one another, and let them survive on the strength of these topics. Let there be nothing else discussed in this world.
 
At present, in order to keep the cultivation of Chaitanya and his instructions alive forever, we ourselves have to remain absorbed in chaitanya-katha despite impediments put forth by materialists, we are spending large amounts of money to arrange for the constant glorification of Hari. This world’s senseless people suffer from a variety of anarthas and are intoxicated by material life. They are so intoxicated that they will do anything except to try to remedy their suffering. Instead, they use their time, money, and intelligence to hear mundane topics, thereby inviting their own ruination by worsening their diseased condition. It is as if they are eating improper food instead of healthy food. Finally, they will go to hell. But still they will not hear about Shri Chaitanya even a little. It is as if they have taken a vow to avoid the proper remedy. Nevertheless, despite the obstacles, Shri Chaitanya’s devotees regularly propagate the message of Shri Chaitanya throughout the world. 
 
— From Amrta-vani — Nectar of Instructions for Immortality, Chapter 8.

DISCUSSING SRILA PRABHUPADA IS THE DIKSHA GURU - PART-2

Letter: Upendra, February 13, 1968
My Guru Maharaja was in the 10th generation from Lord Chaitanya. We are 11th from Lord Chaitanya. The disciplic succession is as follows: 1. Sri Krishna, 2. Brahma, 3. Narada, 4. Vyasa, 5. Madhva, 6. Padmanabha, 7. Narahari, 8. Madhava, 9. Akshobhya, 10. Jayatirtha, 11. Jnanasindhu, 12. Purushottama, 13. Vidyanidhi, 14. Rajendra, 15. Jayadharma, 16. Purushottama, 17. Vyasatirtha, 18. Lakshmipati, 19. Madhavendra Puri, 20. Ishvara Puri (Advaita, Nityananda) 21. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, 22. (Svarupa, Sanatana) Rupa, 23. (Jiva) Raghunath, 24. Krishna dasa, 25. Narottama, 26. Vishvanatha, 27. (Baladeva.) Jagannatha, 28. (Bhaktivinode) Gaura-Kishora, 29. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, Sri Barshabhanavidayitadas, 30. SRI SRIMAD BHAKTIVEDANTA. 
 
7) Note: It is ONLY Srila Prabhupada that fulfills the WORLD ACHARYA position: 
 
Madhya 25.9 How All the Residents of Varanasi Became Vaishnavas
 
“In Dvapara-yuga, devotees of Lord Vishnu and Krishna rendered devotional service according to the principles of pancharatrika. In this Age of Kali, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is worshiped simply by the chanting of His holy names. » Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura then comments: “Without being empowered by the direct potency of Lord Krishna to fulfill His desire and without being specifically favored by the Lord, NO HUMAN BEING CAN BECOME THE SPIRITUAL MASTER OF THE WHOLE WORLD. He certainly cannot succeed by mental concoction, which is not meant for devotees or religious people. Only an empowered personality can distribute the holy name of the Lord and enjoin all fallen souls to worship Krishna. By distributing the holy name of the Lord, he cleanses the hearts of the most fallen people; therefore he extinguishes the blazing fire of the material world. Not only that, he broadcasts the shining brightness of Krishna’s effulgence throughout the world. Such an acharya, or spiritual master, should be considered nondifferent from Krishna - that is, he should be considered the incarnation of Lord Krishna’s potency. Such a personality is krsnalingita-vigraha - that is, he is always embraced by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna. Such a person is above the considerations of the varnashrama institution. HE IS THE GURU OR SPIRITUAL MASTER FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD, A DEVOTEE ON THE TOPMOST PLATFORM, THE MAHA-BHAGAVATA STAGE, AND A PARAMAHAMSA-THAKURA, A SPIRITUAL FORM ONLY FIT TO BE ADDRESSED AS PARAMAHAMSA OR THAKURA.” 
 
8) Note: ONLY Srila Prabhupada will lay claim to be PROMINENT ACHARYA to be FOLLOWED because of his books, cds, tapes, disciples, temples so extensive over the world for FUTURE generations OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS:
 
Letter: Dayananda, April 12, 1968
 
Regarding parampara system: THERE IS NOTHING TO WONDER FOR BIG GAPS. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sun god, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system--namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Ikshvaku; and SO THESE GAPS DO NOT HAMPER FROM UNDERSTANDING THE PARAMPARA SYSTEM. WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PROMINENT ACHARYAS, AND FOLLOW FROM HIM. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. WE HAVE TO PICK UP FROM THE AUTHORITY OF THE ACHARYA IN WHATEVER SAMPRADAYA WE BELONG TO.
 
9) Note: The Hare Krishna mantra is PURE DEVOTEE Srila Prabhupada’s Property to give and July 9th 1977 ORDER is simply discharge MANAGEMENT DUTY of giving conditioned souls Ritviks the privilege OF SERVICE to give Holy Name on BEHALF of PURE devotee Srila Prabhupada. The holy name is NOT conditioned souls property this is WHY it is given ON BEHALF of Srila Prabhupada: 
 
Srimad Bhagavatam 7.9.42  Prahlada Pacifies Lord Narsimhadeva with Prayers
 
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura also sings, tumi ta’ thakura, tomara kukura, baliya janaha more: “O my Lord, O Vaishnava, please consider me your dog.” One must become the dog of a Vaishnava, A PURE DEVOTEE, FOR A PURE DEVOTEE CAN DELIVER KRISHNA WITHOUT DIFFICULTY. KRSNA SE TOMARA, KRSNA DITE PARA. KRISHNA IS THE PROPERTY OF HIS PURE DEVOTEE, AND IF WE TAKE SHELTER OF A PURE DEVOTEE, HE CAN DELIVER KRISHNA VERY EASILY.
 
10) Note: The Ritvik System is SYSTEM OF MANAGEMENT so the issue of HOLY NAME to be given on BEHALF of Srila Prabhupada the PURE devotee MUST continue as per Srila Prabhupada’s ORDER: Other WILL Srila Prabhupada’s Will
 
2. Each temple will be an ISKCON property and will be managed by three executive directors. THE SYSTEM OF MANAGEMENT WILL CONTINUE AS IT IS NOW AND THERE IS NO NEED OF ANY CHANGE.
 
11) Note: ONE INITIATOR Srila Prabhupada. There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, but the initiator spiritual master is one. Holy Name is given ON BEHALF of Srila Prabhupada by Ritvik REPRESENTATIVES:
 
Krishna Book 80 The Meeting of Lord Krishna with Sudama Brahmana
 
Our next spiritual master is he who initiates us into transcendental knowledge, and he is to be worshiped as much as I am. The spiritual master may be more than one. The spiritual master who instructs the disciples about spiritual matters is called siksa-guru, and the spiritual master who initiates the disciple is called diksha-guru. Both of them are My representatives. THERE MAY BE MANY SPIRITUAL MASTERS WHO INSTRUCT, BUT THE INITIATOR SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ONE.
 
12) Note: ONLY the Mahabhagavata Srila Prabhupada is to be ACCEPTED as Diksha Guru otherwise it is 3rd OFFENSE in chanting: 
 
Nectar of Devotion  8 Offenses to Be Avoided
 
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: 
 
(3) TO DISOBEY THE ORDERS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER.
 
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
 
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu diksitah
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah
 
((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY SUCH A PERSON IS ELIGIBLE TO OCCUPY THE POST OF A GURU.))
 
Diksha Process:
 
13) Note: OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE is the Ritvik Representative as per July 9th 1977 Order 
 
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
 
Similarly, a disciple’s qualifications must be observed by the spiritual master before he is accepted as a disciple. IN OUR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS MOVEMENT, THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT ONE MUST BE PREPARED TO GIVE UP THE FOUR PILLARS OF SINFUL LIFE - ILLICIT SEX, MEAT-EATING, INTOXICATION AND GAMBLING. IN WESTERN COUNTRIES ESPECIALLY, WE FIRST OBSERVE WHETHER A POTENTIAL DISCIPLE IS PREPARED TO FOLLOW THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES. THEN HE IS GIVEN THE NAME OF A VAISHNAVA SERVANT AND INITIATED TO CHANT THE HARE KRISHNA MAHA-MANTRA, AT LEAST SIXTEEN ROUNDS DAILY. In this way the disciple renders devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR. HE IS THEN RECOMMENDED FOR A SECOND INITIATION, DURING WHICH A SACRED THREAD IS OFFERED AND THE DISCIPLE IS ACCEPTED AS A BONA FIDE BRAHMANA. 
 
Note: Ritvik can be replaced if he has a fall down:
 
14) Conversations, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan
 
Tamala Krishna: Of course, IF SOMEONE HAS A FALLDOWN, just like in the past some GBC men have fallen down…
 
Prabhupada: HE SHOULD BE REPLACED.
 
Tamala Krishna: Then he should be replaced. But that’s a serious fall down, not some minor discrepancy.
 
Prabhupada: THEY MUST BE ALL IDEAL ACHARYA-LIKE. IN THE BEGINNING WE HAVE DONE FOR WORKING. Now we should be very cautious. ANYONE WHO IS DEVIATING, HE CAN BE REPLACED. 
 
15) Note: The FORMALITY INITIATION of giving Holy Name on Behalf of Srila Prabhupada and fire sacrifice are just SYSTEM OF MANAGEMENT issues: That is not very important thing.
 
Conversation, October 16, 1976,  Chandigarh
 
Interviewer: What is the procedure of the movement? Do you initiate yourself all the disciples or do your other disciples also do that?
 
Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) …knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing.  
 
16) Srila Prabhupada gives Divya-jnana (DIKSHA). Divya means TRANSCENDENTAL and Jnana means KNOWLEDGE Hride means heart and Prokasito means revealed just as in prakasa – manifested Krishna becomes manifest in the heart of the Pure Devotee. 
 
Lectures, July 11, 1976, New York
 
Prabhupada: Divya-jnana hrde prokasito. What is that divya-jnana? Divya-jnana is that we are all servant of Krishna, and our only business is to serve Krishna. Divya-jnana. This is divya-jnana. It is not difficult at all. Simply we have… We have become servant of so many things--servant of society, servant of community, servant of country, servant of wife, servant of children, servant of dog and so many. “Now let me become servant of Krishna.” This is divya-jnana. Diksha. Diksha means from this divya-jnana. That is di. And ksa means ksapayati, expands.
When at the stage of Madhyama Adhikari one is RECEPIENT of THAT Diksha in the HEART from SRILA PRABHUPADA he becomes a SERVANT OF KRISHNA. He relishes a particular mellow (Rasa) of his relationship with Krishna. This point HE SEES KRISHNA and HIS RELATIONSHIP (svarupa) is established. So it is not so CHEAP to be Diksha guru. 

Monday 28 January 2013

First Prabhupadanuga's/ISKCON INC Affiliated Temple Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine


Sri Sri Prahlad Narsimha Temple

Upcoming Dream project

DISCUSSING SRILA PRABHUPADA IS THE DIKSHA GURU - PART-1

Nimai Pandit Das: My desire is to come to understand fully, if it is the Truth (I am keeping the possibility open that it may not be), and to explore the possibility that the process of Diksha is explained so comprehensively, THAT THERE CAN BE NO QUESTION TO ACCEPT THAT ONLY SRILA PRABHUPADA IS THAT DIKSHA GURU, OF ALL OURS. AND THAT AS A SIDE ISSUE JULY 9TH LETTER is of course, so natural. I think to try to prove/disapprove the July 9th letter from the angle of past “ritvik” practices is superficial and a play in logic by both sides.
 
Mahesh: VERY EASY. Let’s consider the following facts:
 
1) WHY did Srila Prabhupada ARRANGE to have his OWN murti in ALL the temples in ISKCON for worshiping during Guru Puja UNLESS he was GIVER OF the DIVYA Jnana hrdaya prakasito HE GIVES DIVYA JNANA (DIKSHA)
ONLY a MAHABHAGAVATA is accepted as Worshipable Diksha Guru as per Chaitanya Charitamrita Madhya 24.330. Srila Prabhupada is THE ACHARYA of ISKCON. 
 
NOTE: It is ONLY ACHARYA that can give DIKSHA because even in NOD this is stated REGARDING ACCEPTING INITIATION from the spiritual master it refers to Srimad Bhagavatam 11.17.27 which is ACHARYA.
 
Nectar of Devotion 7 — Evidence Regarding Devotional Principles 
 
REGARDING ACCEPTING INITIATION from the spiritual master, in the Eleventh Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Seventeenth Chapter, verse 27, it is stated by Lord Krishna, “My dear Uddhava, the spiritual master must be accepted not only as My representative, but as My very self. He must never be considered on the same level with an ordinary human being. One should never be envious of the spiritual master, as one may be envious of an ordinary man. The spiritual master should always be seen as the representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and by serving the spiritual master one is able to serve all the demigods.”  
 
Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.7.15 — Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brihaspati: 
 
“By the mercy of the spiritual master one is benedicted by the mercy of Krishna. Without the grace of the spiritual master, one cannot make any advancement.” A disciple should never be a hypocrite or be unfaithful to his spiritual master. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.17.27), THE SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ALSO CALLED ACHARYA. Acaryam mam vijaniyan: the Supreme Personality of Godhead says that one should respect the spiritual master, accepting him as the Lord Himself. Navamanyeta karhicit: one should not disrespect the acharya at any time. Na martya-buddhyasuyeta: one should never think the acharya an ordinary person. Familiarity sometimes breeds contempt, but one should be very careful in one’s dealings with the acharya. Agadha-dhisanam dvijam: the acharya is a perfect brahmana and has unlimited intelligence in guiding the activities of his disciple.  
 
2) Srila Prabhupada put it DELIBERATELY in all his books FOUNDER-ACHARYA. Srila Prabhupada did NOT say he was only ISKCON founder. There is HYPHEN in between the words Founder AND Acharya which indicates HE IS ALSO ITS CURRENT ACHARYA.  
 
3) There is ALSO the FACT that ONLY INITIATED DISCIPLE will be Director. This means HE wanted to REMAIN the INITIATOR for the EXISTENCE of the society:  Other WILL Srila Prabhupada’s Will
 
The executive directors who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said directors, a successor director or directors may be appointed by the remaining directors, provided the new director is MY INITIATED DISCIPLE following strictly all the rules and regulations of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness as detailed in my books, and provided that there are never less than three (3) or more than five (5) executive directors acting at one time. 
 
4) Letter: Madhudvisa, August 4, 1975 
 
The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I AM THE INITIATOR GURU, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.
 
Conversations, March 12, 1968, San Francisco
 
Prabhupada: Yes, I AM the spiritual master of this institution, and ALL the members of the society, they’re supposed to be MY disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually. So therefore the spiritual master is called guru. That is Sanskrit language. 
 
5) Disciple belongs to whoever gives DISCIPLINE TO him: In ISKCON we are ALL being DISCIPLINED by Srila Prabhupada (we receive instructions DISCIPLINE) FROM Srila Prabhupada’s books. Even the most basic discipline, 16 rounds of Hare Krishna Mantra and four Regulative Principles are coming FROM Srila Prabhupada. Common sense — if you ARE being disciplined BY Srila Prabhupada then it follows you ARE Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. How can it be otherwise?  The MEANING of the word “disciple”
 
Srila Prabhupada’s Morning Walk, March 8, 1976 in Mayapur: 
 
Prabhupada: “Discipline… Disciple means discipline. The word discipline comes from disciple, or disciple comes from discipline. So unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. This discipline must… That should be uniform. Otherwise, sisya… sisya, the word sisya, it comes from the root, verb, sas-dhatu. sas. sas means ruling. From this word, sasana. Sasana means government. sastra. sastra means weapon, and sastra, scripture, and sisya… These things have come from the one root sas-dhatu. So sas-dhatu means ruling under discipline. There is another English word, that “Obedience is the first law of discipline,” or something. They say, “Obedience is the first law of discipline”? So I am right? “Obedience is…”? That is the…
 
Tamala Krishna: Yes, that’s more or less what it is.
 
Prabhupada: No, what is the word, exact. There is an English word. “Obedience is the first law of discipline.” So unless there is obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. DISCIPLE MEANS ONE WHO FOLLOWS DISCIPLINE.”
 
Discipline comes from Srila Prabhupada. We are actually being disciplined by Srila Prabhupada. It is Srila Prabhupada who has given us the regulative principles of no meat, fish or eggs; no intoxication (including tea and coffee), no illicit sex, and no gambling. It is Srila Prabhupada who has made it a regulative principle for us to chant sixteen rounds on the beads HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE /HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.
 
Srila Prabhupada’s books contain all the instructions, the guidance required for us to get ourselves out of the clutches of the modes of material nature. In fact, Srila Prabhupada is personally present as his books. 
 
Chaitanya-charitamrita, Adi 1, Text 35:
 
“There is NO DIFFERENCE between the spiritual master’s instructions and the spiritual master himself.”
 
Since the instructions of the spiritual master and the spiritual master are not different, one can be the disciple of Srila Prabhupada by following his discipline and can be considered Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. Another point is he can be considered both direct disciple and not direct simultaneously, because Srila Prabhupada is still present in his instruction form (his books). The following example will illustrate the point.
Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja is the example of both direct and not direct disciple simultaneously. (THE PHILOSOPHY OF SIMULTANEOUS ONENESS AND DIFFERENCE). 
 
Chaitanya-charitamrita, Adi 1:
 
“A direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami was Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The author of Sri Chaitanya-charitamrita, Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, stands as the DIRECT DISCIPLE of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The direct disciple of Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Vishvanatha Chakravarti as his servitor. Srila Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, who initiated Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn initiated Srila Gaurakishora dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Vishnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self. Since we belong to this chain of disciplic succession from Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, this edition of Sri Chaitanya-charitamrita will contain nothing newly manufactured by our tiny brains, but only remnants of food originally eaten by the Lord Himself.”  
 
Chaitanya-charitamrita, Antya 19.102: 
 
Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was not actually a direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami, but he FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS given by Srila Rupa Gosvami in Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu. He therefore ACTED ACCORDING TO THE DIRECTIONS of Rupa Gosvami and prayed in every chapter for his mercy.  
 
6) Note: It is SUCCESSION MEANS to SUCCEED Srila Prabhupada is the LAST name in Disciplic Succession of ACHARYAS:
 
Srimad Bhagavatam 3.29.17  Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila
 
In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge BY ACCEPTING THE ACHARYA. Acaryopasanam: one should worship an acharya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION FROM KRISHNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACHARYAS.  
 

History of ISKCON Inc.


CT68-132

Introduction
“I, the undersigned, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, disciple of Om Visnupad Paramhansa 108 Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaj Prabhupada, came in the United States in 1965 on September 18th for the purpose of starting Krishna Consciousness Movement. For one year I had no shelter. I was travelling in many parts of this country. Then in 1966, July, I incorporated the Society under the name and style the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, briefly ISKCON. The lawyer was Mr. J. Goldsmith. Gradually the Society increased, and one after another branches were opened. “(His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada(link Acharya) in the directive Direction of Management, dated July 28, 1970)
ISKCON, Inc. or ISKCON was formed in 1966, as stated above, for seven purposes that were originally listed in its Certificate of Incorporation (PDF).
INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS, INC.
The purposes for which the Society is organized are:
1. To systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to society at large and to educate all people in the techniques of spiritual life in order to check the imbalance of values in life and to achieve real unity and peace in the world.
2. To propagate a consciousness of Krishna (God), as it is revealed in the great scriptures of India, Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam.
3. To bring the members of the Society together with each other and nearer to Krishna, the prime entity, thus developing the idea within the members, and humanity at large, that each soul is part and parcel of the quality of Godhead (Krishna).
4. To teach and encourage the sankirtana movement, congregational chanting of the holy name of God, as revealed in the teachings of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
5. To erect for the members and for society at large a holy place of transcendental pastimes dedicated to the personality of Krishna.
6. To bring the members closer together for the purpose of teaching a simpler, more natural way of life.
7. With a view towards achieving the aforementioned purposes, to publish and distribute periodicals, magazines, books and other writings.
Dated July 13, 1966
Incorporated by :
A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami
Carol Baker
Raymond Marais
(Note: Signed with Blue ink tip pen by Srila Prabhupada, the original is at the Country Clerk’s Office in downtown Manhattan where one can still go and view it. A certified Copy of the original is here.)
Constitution of the Society
These purposes of his Society were further expanded by Srila Prabhupada in another document called the Constitution of Association.
These 2 documents, the Certificate of Incorporation and the Constitution of Association were known as the (initial) Constitution of the Society.
This registration of the Society was done at the 26th 2nd Ave temple in Manhattan, NY from where Srila Prabhupada started his preaching activities in the USA. Soon more centers were opened in USA and also in other countries. While registering new Societies Srila Prabhupada instructed the disciples to follow these Constitution Documents of ISKCON, Inc. amending these for local laws as is further described in Constitution of ISKCON-Part 2.
NY temple and ISKCON, Inc.
Even though this Society was registered at 26th 2nd Ave, NY, still this Society was not considered the “NY temple” but the NY temple was considered by Srila Prabhupada to be one of the centers of this Society like all the newly formed centers in USA and in other parts of the world.
This is evident from the 1st para of the Direction of Management as quoted above -
“Then in 1966, July, I incorporated the Society under the name and style the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, briefly ISKCON. The lawyer was Mr. J. Goldsmith. Gradually the Society increased, and one after another branches were opened. Now we have got thirty-four (34) branches enlisted herewith:
Then Srila Prabhupada lists the 34 centers at that time. NY temple is listed as one of its 34 “branches”.
“New York City, New York…… 61 Second Ave. 10003″
Other Temples
In the initial years, ISKCON, Inc., NY was registered in several states of USA and used to buy newly developing temples. The Los Angles temple, the San Fransisco temple, the Berkeley temple, the Seattle temple, the San Diego temple, Laguna Beach temple (all in California), the Gita Nagari farm in Pennsylvania and many others were owned by ISKCON, Inc., NY. The 13 story skyscraper in Manhattan was also bought by ISKCON, Inc., NY.
Even though Srila Prabhupada wanted all temples to be separate legally, this was done initially to save time and energy in maintaining separate registered societies.  Later Srila Prabhupada instructed them to be separated legally by sending this instruction.
Formation of GBC
On July 28, 1970, Srila Prabhupada wrote in the Direction of ManagementThere was a meeting in San Francisco during the Ratha Yatra festival 1970 and many presidents of the centers were present. In that meeting it was resolved that an ad hoc committee be set up to form the constitution which is taken into consideration. My duty was to first appoint twelve (12) persons to my free choice amongst my disciples and I do it now and their names are as follows:” and then he lists the first 12 GBC members.
In future years, the elections of the GBCs was to take place thus, as per Direction of Management:
“2.         His Divine Grace will select the initial 12 members of the GBC. In the succeeding years the GBC will be elected by a vote of all Temple presidents who will vote for 8 from a ballot of all Temple presidents, which may also include any secretary who is in charge of a Temple. Those 8 with the greatest number of votes will be members for the next term of GBC. Srila Prabhupada will choose to retain four commissioners. In the event of Srila Prabhupada’s absence, the retiring members will decide which four will remain.”
This GBC so made and elected thus was to be the GBC of ISKCON, Inc. as:
a. This Direction of Management was written on the letterhead(mast) of INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS, INC. on July 28, 1970. (PDF)
b. It made the first GBC body from among the Presidents of centers listed as “branches” of ISKCON, Inc. for all the centers of ISKCON, Inc. throughout the world as described and listed in the beginning of the Direction of Management:
“Then in 1966, July, I incorporated the Society under the name and style the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, briefly ISKCON. The lawyer was Mr. J. Goldsmith. Gradually the Society increased, and one after another branches were opened. Now we have got thirty-four (34) branches enlisted herewith:”
This is more evident from the letter below.
Basic Organizational Structure of ISKCON, Inc.
Srila Prabhupada sent a formal letter via Karandhara Das to ALL Temple Presidents of ISKCON centers in the world, dated April 22, 1972(PDF). This was sent while re-instating the GBC body from its almost 1 month suspension when they had disobeyed Srila Prabhupada.
This letter was also written on the letterhead of “INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS, INC. Via this letter Srila Prabhupada laid down the exact organizational structure of ISKCON, Inc. or ISKCON as it was generally known.
This GBC was not a registered Body or a separate incorporated body as per Srila Prabhupada. It was made and was to remain an unincorporated Association supervising and guiding ISKCON or ISKCON, Inc. centers as per Direction of Management and other similar directives of Srila Prabhupada. It was not meant to enforce legal authority over the centers.
ISKCON, Inc. or ISKCON ?
In normal usage ISKCON, Inc. (Legal name “International Society for Krishna Consciousness, Incorporated”) was known as just ISKCON. This is so as “Inc.” short form of “Incorporated” denoting that it is a Corporation, is normally not used colloquially. For e.g.
IBM, Inc. (Legal name International Business Machine Corporation) is normally called just IBM. Apple, Inc. is normally called just Apple. “Inc.” is used in legal usage.
When asked this question, Srila Prabhupada replied thus. He said ISKCON is the short cut of our Society name. (where?)
These documents and many others from that time, show Srila Prabhupada considered that formally speaking all the centers in the world were ISKCON or ISKCON, Inc. centers. These ISKCON, Inc. centers or ISKCON centers were not “legal branches” but associates of ISKCON, Inc.(ISKCON), or affiliates of.
Bhaktivedanta Book Trust (BBT)
Hence, Srila Prabhupada made this Society, ISKCON, Inc., the exclusive beneficiary of his newly formed Bhaktivedanta Book Trust (BBT) on May 29th, 1972 (PDF) in Los Angeles, USA.
On Page 2, Section III,
Purpose of Trust
This Trust is created and shall be operated exclusively for the benefit of the INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS, INCORPORATED by me as a tax exempt organization” —-
The only International Society for Krishna Consciousness that was incorporated by Srila Prabhupada himself (PDF) , and specifically as a tax-exempt organization, was his original one in NY, which is called ISKCON, Incorporated or ISKCON, Inc., on July 13, 1966.
Mayapur Vrindavan Trust (MVT)
Srila Prabhupada also made this Society, ISKCON, Inc., the exclusive beneficiary of Mayapur Vrindavan Trust (MVT) on May 29th, 1972 (PDF) in Los Angeles, USA. This trust was used by Srila Prabhupada collecting funds for maintenance of the Deities in his Vrindavan and Mayapur temples.
On Page 2, Section III,
Purpose of Trust
This Trust is created and shall be operated exclusively for the benefit of the INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS, INCORPORATED by me as a tax exempt organization” —-
Srila Prabhupada’s Bank Accounts in USA
All of the personal Bank accounts in USA that Srila Prabhupada used to collect donations, sales proceeds of the books and other incomes were ISKCON, Inc. accounts in various banks.
Srila Prabhupada’s Visiting Card
iskcon inc prabhupada card
Please note “International Society for Krishna Consciousness, Inc.” at the top.

The 10th Anniversary of ISKCON, Inc.
On July 6, 1976, the 10th Anniversary of ISKCON, Inc. was celebrated in Washington, D.C. USA. Sri Rupanuga Das, a GBC and Srila Prabhupada had this to say about ISKCON, Inc.
Chairman and Trustee of ISKCON, Inc.
At that time and till his Disappearance in Nov of 1977, Srila Prabhupada was the Chairman and Trustee of ISKCON, Inc.
Conclusion:
ISKCON, Inc. was used by Srila Prabhuada to-
1. Hold the Constitution of the Society to which all new registered bodies would model their constitution to.
2. As a binding organization to which ALL centers in the world will be associates of as is evident from Direction of Management and other documents from that time. But it was not meant to be a controlling organization over other centers, temples or registered Societies.
3. As the global registered Society, registered in NY, for which Direction of Management was written for i.e. formally speaking the GBC was made for this registered organization, to which all the centers/temples including the NY temple were associated to.
4. For all these reasons, Srila Prabhupada listed the ISKCON, Inc. as the exclusive beneficiary of his BBT while forming the BBT in Los Angles. The benefit from BBT (Books and funds for temple construction) was meant for all the centers of ISKCON, Inc. at that time listed in Direction of Management and subsequently being formed all over world.

Prabhupadanugas Slovakia

Constitution of ISKCON

Srila Prabhupada made the preliminary Constitution of ISKCON as is described below:

Constitution Of ISKCON- Part 1
Constitution of ISKCON- Part-2
Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions on Constitution of ISKCON

The initial Constitution of ISKCON, as described in Constitution of ISKCON – Part 1, was the Certificate of Incorporation of ISKCON, Inc., specifically listing the “7 Purposes of ISKCON” and the Constitution of Association, which expanded those & purposes.
This Constitution was legally held by ISKCON, Inc.  As described in Constitution of ISKCON – Part 2, the new ISKCON entities that were being formed in USA and out of USA were being asked by Srila Prabhupada to form by copying these Constitution documents for their Incorporation/registration amending to their local laws. This is how the “7 Purposes of ISKCON” were copied everywhere in all ISKCON related entities worldwide. ISKCON, Inc. was thus the central repository of the then initial Constitution of Srila Prabhupada’s Worldwide Society.
As is described in Part 2, he instructed that detailed Constitution of ISKCON be made.
Direction of Management dated July 28, 1970, many other official documents and official letters sent by Srila Prabhupada, and the Resolutions of GBC of 1975, 1976 & 1977, among others, did work on some of those details under Srila Prabhupada’s supervision.
But a comprehensive Constitution of ISKCON has still not been drafted and adopted.
In 2005, the members of ISKCON, Inc. amended the initial Certificate of Incorporation of ISKCON, Inc., adopting many of the above instructions given after 1966 in the Certificate of Incorporation of ISKCON, Inc.
This was an interim Constitution, so as to help in bringing like minded temples/centers/ devotees together.

This interim constitution is to be replaced by a NEW Constitution of ISKCON to be drafted publicly and with worldwide participation and then put for adoption in centers/temples that agree with these principles. ISKCON, Inc. will then continue to protect/hold this constitution by means of its trustees who are proposed to be the GBCs or subset of them in the near future. This will ensure that future amendments to the Constitution of ISKCON will not be unilateral or whimsical to protect the integrity of the worldwide organization.  All new amendments to the Constitution will go through similar process as is being proposed for drafting it.

After the adoption of this Constitution as the Certificate of Incorporation of ISKCON, Inc., the worldwide Affiliates would, local laws permitting, adopt/amend this Constitution to their local incorporation papers. How exactly and how much of it would need to be done would be dealt with in the Constitution itself. This would ensure that the whole movement, consisting of centers/temples that agree to this Constitution will be on the same page both philosophically and organizationally. Those centers/temples who do not agree to this Constitution and do not agree to affiliate with ISKCON, Inc. would also be served by this Constitution as it will act as an example of governance as advised by Srila Prabhupada. At least that is our fervent hope.
Now the next step is formation of a Constitutional Committee of Coordinators that can ensure wide participation, maturity and respectability.
 The newly elected GBC of ISKCON, Inc will appoint this Constitution Committee.
The Constitutional Committee then will lead the discussion of the various clauses of the Draft Constitution on public forums here in this space on ISKCONinc.com/constitution.
Please await the announcements and come back with your valuable input in the process of drafting the Constitution. This draft, without it being based on the Documents and teachings of Srila Prabhupada, without wide participation, without worldwide viewpoints, without the years of experience of all ISKCON devotees, will not be complete.
Our hope is that this constitution will help ensure organizational unity and purity among ISKCON devotees for generations to come and thus please Srila Prabhupada.

If you would like to participate as an official moderator, researcher or contributor, or would like to be kept informed on its progress all the way up to its adoption, please write to constitution@iskconinc.com . We will contact you when the Constitution Committee is formed, the forums are ready to roll out on this space, and the first topics to start the discussion are posted.


Wednesday 23 January 2013

Srila Prabhupada speaks about Line of Succession


"Devotee: "His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati accepted both Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Gaurakisora as his spiritual master.
"Prabhupada: Gaurakisora dasa... Bhaktivinoda Thakura was his father, and Gaurakisora dasa Babaji was treating Bhaktivinoda Thakura... Although he was householder and Gaurakisora dasa Babaji was renounced order, still he used to offer great respect to Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and Bhaktivinoda Thakura saw him a pure devotee; therefore he recommended his son, Bimala Prasada. His former name was Bimala Prasada, and he got this title Siddhanta Sarasvati by writing one thesis on astronomy, astrology, astrological calculation according to solar system. So he got this title Siddhanta Sarasvati. So this Siddhanta Sarasvati, Sarasvati title also accepted by sannyasa. Sarasvati, Bharati, Puri, Aranya, Bon, Parvat--there are ten names of sannyasa according to Mayavadi school, and according to Vaisnava school there are 108 names. So this "svami" and "gosvami," they're also included within that 108 names. So he accepted Gaurakisora dasa Babaji Maharaja his spiritual master. Yes?
"Devotee: Does our line of succession go directly to Gaurakisora dasa Babaji or to Bhaktivinoda Thakura?
"Prabhupada: No. Because he was treating Bhaktivinoda Thakura as his siksa guru, preceptor guru, so it is in the line.
"Devotee: But is Bhaktivinoda Thakura directly in succession from Lord Caitanya?
"Prabhupada: Yes.
"Devotee: And Gaurakisora dasa Babaji also?
"Prabhupada: Yes...." 

Srila Prabhupada, Questions & Answers, 08-62-68, Montreal

Tuesday 22 January 2013

Reply to Rocana Dasa on his COMPLETE MISUNDERSTANDING of BOTH the Guru and Ritvik Issue---COMPLETE ARTICLE

Reply to Rocana Dasa on his COMPLETE MISUNDERSTANDING of BOTH the Guru and Ritvik Issue
 
This is a REPLY to Rocana Prabhu on his COMPLETE MISUNDERSTANDING of BOTH Guru AND Ritvik Issue:
 
77-07-09.All Letter: All G.B.C., All Temple Presidents
The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book.”
 
Note Srila Prabhupada’s SECRETARY entered the names in the His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book.”  It did NOT require  VAPU(physical) presence of Srila Prabhupada to do this menial task.
 
July 7, 1977, Vrndavana
TAMALA KRSNA: YOU KNOW THAT BOOK I'M MAINTAINING OF ALL OF YOUR DISCIPLES' NAMES? SHOULD I CONTINUE THAT?
PRABHUPADA: HM.
TAMALA KRSNA: SO IF SOMEONE GIVES INITIATION, LIKE HARIKESA MAHARAJA, HE SHOULD SEND THE PERSON'S NAME TO US HERE AND I'LL ENTER IT IN THE BOOK. OKAY
 
Amar Puri Prabhu wrote to Rocana Prabhu and Rocana Prabhu Replies:
“So who gave you permission, Amar Puri, to decide that the system will be changed upon his departure so that names get sent to someone else? Or not sent? Or whatever?” — Rocana
 
Mahesh: Srila Prabhupada had ALREADY given instruction of HOW he wanted the prospective disciples ACCEPTED. The system was ALREADY in place. Besides this, use of LITTLE COMMON-SENSE is neccesary WHAT sort of person can REPRESENT Srila Prabhupada. If REPRESENTATIVE OF ACARYA falls down he CAN be REPLACED:
 
Note: OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE is the Ritvik Representative as per July 9th 1977 Order Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
Similarly, a disciple’s qualifications must be observed by the spiritual master before he is accepted as a disciple. IN OUR KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS MOVEMENT, THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT ONE MUST BE PREPARED TO GIVE UP THE FOUR PILLARS OF SINFUL LIFE-ILLICIT SEX, MEAT-EATING, INTOXICATION AND GAMBLING. IN WESTERN COUNTRIES ESPECIALLY, WE FIRST OBSERVE WHETHER A POTENTIAL DISCIPLE IS PREPARED TO FOLLOW THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES. THEN HE IS GIVEN THE NAME OF A VAISNAVA SERVANT AND INITIATED TO CHANT THE HARE KRSNA MAHA-MANTRA, AT LEAST SIXTEEN ROUNDS DAILY. In this way the disciple renders devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR. HE IS THEN RECOMMENDED FOR A SECOND INITIATION, DURING WHICH A SACRED THREAD IS OFFERED AND THE DISCIPLE IS ACCEPTED AS A BONA FIDE BRAHMANA.
 
770528me.vrn Conversations
Tamala Krsna: Of course, IF SOMEONE HAS A FALLDOWN, just like in the past some GBC men have fallen down…
Prabhupada: HE SHOULD BE REPLACED.
Tamala Krsna: Then he should be replaced. But that’s a serious falldown, not some minor discrepancy.
Prabhupada: THEY MUST BE ALL IDEAL ACARYA-LIKE. IN THE BEGINNING WE HAVE DONE FOR WORKING. Now we should be very cautious. ANYONE WHO IS DEVIATING, HE CAN BE REPLACED.
One can replace a Representative of Acarya if he deviates BUT one can NOT replace DIKSA Guru because he MUST be a Mahabhagavata OTHERWISE he is NOT DIKSA GURU. It is 3rd offense in chanting to accept any other than a Mahabhagavata:
 
NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) TO DISOBEY THE ORDERS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER.
 
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu diksitah
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah
((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY SUCH A PERSON IS ELIGIBLE TO OCCUPY THE POST OF A GURU.))
 
Rocana Dasa in his “Church of Rtvik”:
NOI 5
“One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.” (NOI5)
 
“Nectar of Instruction, Text 5
 
If one reads the above Purport, which contains the statement used by the HKS to support their position, it is clear that Srila Prabhupada is suggesting that a guru should ideally be an uttama-adhikari. We have to keep in mind, however, the fact that Srila Prabhupada is Himself an uttama-adhikari and a Sampradaya Acarya. At the time Nectar of Instruction was published, the reader had a choice to take initiation directly from Srila Prabhupada. But Srila Prabhupada also clearly says in this quote that there are gurus in all three categories: kanistha, madhyama, and uttama-adhikari. He does not state that he is referring here to diksa gurus rather than siksa gurus. He does state that the problem with having a guru that is not uttama-adhikari is that the initiated can’t advance beyond the level of their guru’s realization. Consequently, he cautions that the disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as their guru. He does not say, however, that gurus in the other two categories are bogus, or are not part of the sampradaya, or are just pretending to be gurus but are actually not gurus. Clearly, the Hare Krishna Society would like you believe that he is saying these things. While it is absolutely true that there is no Sampradaya Acarya who has ever fallen down, and that certain things disqualify a diksa guru, they cannot make the case that Srila Prabhupada has instructed that one must never accept a kanistha or madhyama as diksa guru. ”
 
Mahesh: we will just take a segment of his ERRONEOUS understanding of the DIKSA Guru AND PROVE HIM COMPELETELY WRONG THAT KANISTHA AND MADHYAMA ARE **NOT** DIKSA GURU as he SPECULATES:
 
Rocana Dasa: “While it is absolutely true that there is no Sampradaya Acarya who has ever fallen down, and that certain things disqualify a diksa guru, they cannot make the case that Srila Prabhupada has instructed that one must never accept a kanistha or madhyama as diksa guru. ”
 
Mahesh:
NOI 5
“One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.” (NOI5)
 
Some devotees are taking this above quote to mean that Kanistha can give Diksa. This is NOT what Srila Prabhupada says. There is NO mention of Diksa by kanistha. What it exactly says is about accepting DISCIPLES. Then suggests very strongly 2 points:
 
1)”..they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.”
 
2)“One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari.
 
The question is can a Kanistha give DIKSA from this quote? The answer is NO!
 
So how can we establish that Kanistha does NOT give diksa?
Kanistha is a QUALIFIED Brahmana. But even such a QUALIFIED Brahmana is in MATERIAL CONTAMINATION. And because he has MATERIAL CONTAMINATION he does NOT have Transcendental Knowledge. What you do NOT have you can NOT give. And it is Transcendental Knowledge that frees one from ALL MATERIAL CONTAMINATION.
 
Definition of Diksa:
Madhya 15.108 The Lord Accepts Prasada at the House of Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya
Srila Jiva Gosvami explains diksa in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283):
divyam jnanam yato dadyat
kuryat papasya sanksayam
tasmad dikseti sa prokta
desikais tattva-kovidaih
“Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa.”
 
Madhya 4.111 Sri Madhavendra Puri’ s Devotional Service
Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination.
 
So here we see from above definition of Diksa quotes:
1) Transcendental Knowledge awakened, initiated
2) becomes freed from all material contamination; vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity
 
Now ask a simple question HOW can a Brahmana(Kanistha) who is NOT freed from MATERIAL CONTAMINATION GIVE DIKSA -BY WHICH- ONE BECOMES FREED FROM **ALL** MATERIAL CONTAMINATION?
 
Just take a look at how contradictory and stupid this looks:
Q1) HOW can a Brahmana (Kanistha) who is HIMSELF material contaminated free another person from **ALL** MATERIAL CONTAMINATION?
 
SB 9.19.25 P King Yayati Achieves Liberation
The word vidhuta, meaning “cleansed,” is very significant. Everyone in this material world is contaminated (karanam guna-sango ‘sya). Because we are in a material condition, we are contaminated either by sattva-guna, by rajo-guna or by tamo-guna. Even if one becomes a qualified brahmana in the mode of goodness (sattva-guna), he is still materially contaminated. One must come to the platform of suddha-sattva, transcending the sattva-guna. Then one is vidhuta-trilinga, cleansed of the contamination caused by the three modes of material nature.
 
Q2) If a Brahmana(Kanistha) had Transcendental Knowledge then why is  contaminated by goodness(sattva-guna)?
Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity.
Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination
 
Q3) So HOW can a Kanistha(Brahmana) who HIMSELF is material contaminated does NOT have Transcendental Knowledge give another person Transcendental Knowledge to free him?
Common-sense: What you do NOT have you CAN NOT give to others.
 
770214r2.may Conversations
Prabhupada: Vaisnava is not so easy. The varnasrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaisnava. It is not so easy to become Vaisnava.
Hari-sauri: No, it’s not a cheap thing.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava, is not so easy. If Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyasa is for the highest qualified brahmana. And simply by dressing like a Vaisnava, that is… fall down.
Hari-sauri: So the varnasrama system is like for the kanisthas, Kanistha-adhikari.
Prabhupada: Kanistha?
Hari-sauri: When one is only on the platform of neophyte.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Kanistha-adhikari, yes.
Hari-sauri: Varnasrama system is beneficial.
Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari means he must be a brahmana. That is kanistha-adhikari. The spiritual life, kanistha-adhikari, means he must be a qualified brahmana. That is kanistha. What is esteemed as very high position in the material world, brahmana, that is kanistha-adhikari.
arcayam eva haraye
pujam yah sraddhayehate
na tad-bhaktesu canyesu
sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah
The brahmana means from the material stage gradually he is elevated to the spiritual stage. And below the brahmana there is no question of Vaisnava.
Hari-sauri: No question of?
Prabhupada: Vaisnavism.
 
760206mw.may Conversations
Dayananda: But what about the persons who may be a little bit devoted but who have not achieved that unalloyed devotion?
Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari. They are not devotees, but they are called bhaktabhasa. There is some signs of bhakti. Actually they are not bhakta. Bhaktabhasa. Abhasa. Abhasa means a simple, a little light.
Hrdayananda: So devotee really means one who has love for Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes, unalloyed, without any condition. Anyabhilasita-sunyam, zero, all other, that “I am this, I am that, I am jnani, I am yogi, I am karmi, I am minister, I am king”--all these are thinking like that, they’re all nonsense. “I am servant of Krsna”--that is greatness. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa. That is self-realization, atma-tattvam.
 
Madhya 20.59 Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Instructs Sanatana Gosvami in the Science
PURPORT
This verse is spoken by Prahlada Maharaja in Srimad-Bhagavatam (7.9.10). A brahmana is supposed to be qualified with twelve qualities. As stated in the Mahabharata:
dharmas ca satyam ca damas tapas ca
amatsaryam hris titiksanasuya
yajnas ca danam ca dhrtih srutam ca
vratani vai dvadasa brahmanasya
“A brahmana must be perfectly religious. He must be truthful, and he must be able to control his senses. He must execute severe austerities, and he must be detached, humble and tolerant. He must not envy anyone, and he must be expert in performing sacrifices and giving whatever he has in charity. He must be fixed in devotional service and expert in the knowledge of the Vedas. These are the twelve qualifications for a brahmana.”
Bhagavad-gita describes the brahminical qualities in this way:
samo damas tapah saucam
ksantir arjavam eva ca
jnanam vijnanam astikyam
brahma-karma svabhava-jam
“Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness--these are the qualities by which the brahmanas work.” (Bg. 18.42)
In the Muktaphala-tika, it is said:
samo damas tapah saucam
ksanty-arjava-virakta yah
jnana-vijnana-santosah
satyastikye dvisad gunah
“Mental equilibrium, sense control, austerity, cleanliness, tolerance, simplicity, detachment, theoretical and practical knowledge, satisfaction, truthfulness and firm faith in the Vedas are the twelve qualities of a brahmana.”
 
730828BG.LON Lectures
So first of all, we have to become brahmana. Then Vaisnava. Brahmana simply knows that “I am spirit soul,” aham brahmasmi. Brahma janati iti brahmana. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. By such knowledge one becomes prasannatma. Means relieved. As you feel relief… When there is burden on your head, and the burden is taken away you feel relieved, similarly, this ignorance that “I am this body” is a great burden, a burden upon us. So when you get out of this burden, then you feel relieved. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. Means when actually one understands that “I am not this body; I am soul,” then he has to work so hard for maintaining this body, so he gets relief that “Why I am working so hard for this lump of material things? Let me execute my real necessity of life, spiritual life.” That is great relief. That is great relief. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati. The relief means there is hankering, no more lamentation. These are the brahma-bhutah.
 
SB 1.2.20 P Divinity and Divine Service
The very same thing is confirmed herein in the above words. No ordinary man, or even one who has attained success in human life, can know scientifically or perfectly the Personality of Godhead. Perfection of human life is attained when one can understand that he is not the product of matter but is in fact spirit. And as soon as one understands that he has nothing to do with matter, he at once ceases his material hankerings and becomes enlivened as a spiritual being. This attainment of success is possible when one is above the modes of passion and ignorance, or, in other words, when one is actually a brahmana by qualification. A BRAHMANA IS THE SYMBOL OF SATTVA-GUNA, OR THE MODE OF GOODNESS. AND OTHERS, WHO ARE NOT IN THE MODE OF GOODNESS, ARE EITHER KSATRIYAS, VAISYAS, SUDRAS OR LESS THAN THE SUDRAS. THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE IS THE HIGHEST STAGE OF HUMAN LIFE BECAUSE OF ITS GOOD QUALITIES. SO ONE CANNOT BE A DEVOTEE UNLESS ONE AT LEAST QUALIFIES AS A BRAHMANA. The devotee is already a brahmana by action. But that is not the end of it. AS REFERRED TO ABOVE, SUCH A BRAHMANA HAS TO BECOME A VAISNAVA IN FACT TO BE ACTUALLY IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL STAGE. A PURE VAISNAVA IS A LIBERATED SOUL AND IS TRANSCENDENTAL EVEN TO THE POSITION OF A BRAHMANA. IN THE MATERIAL STAGE EVEN A BRAHMANA IS ALSO A CONDITIONED SOUL BECAUSE ALTHOUGH IN THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE THE CONCEPTION OF BRAHMAN OR TRANSCENDENCE IS REALIZED, SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUPREME LORD IS LACKING. ONE HAS TO SURPASS THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE AND REACH THE VASUDEVA STAGE TO UNDERSTAND THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD KRSNA.
Divya-jnana means : Divya TRANSCENDENTAL and Jnana means KNOWLEDGE
So UNLESS one is on TRANSCENDENTAL PLATFORM means Uttama Adhikari (Maha Bhagavata) there can NOT be any question of Transcendental Knowledge of ones CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION coming FROM him. THIS EFFECTIVLY DISQUALIFIES KANISTHA AND MADHYAM (MIDDLE STAGE) FROM GIVING DIKSA -- AUTOMATICALLY.
Hrde means heart and Prokasito means revealed just as in prakasa – manifested Krsna becomes manifest in the heart of the Pure Devotee.
 
760711CC.NY Lectures
Prabhupada: Divya-jnana hrde prokasito. What is that divya-jnana? Divya-jnana is that we are all servant of Krsna, and our only business is to serve Krsna. Divya-jnana. This is divya-jnana. It is not difficult at all. Simply we have… We have become servant of so many things--servant of society, servant of community, servant of country, servant of wife, servant of children, servant of dog and so many. “Now let me become servant of Krsna.” This is divya-jnana. Diksa. Diksa means from this divya-jnana. That is di. And ksa means ksapayati, expands.
When at the stage of Madhyama Adhikari one is RECEPIENT of THAT Diksa in the HEART from SRILA PRABHUPADA he becomes a SERVANT OF KRSNA. He relishes a particular mellow (Rasa) of his relationship with Krsna. This point HE SEES KRSNA and HIS RELATIONSHIP (svarupa) is established. So it is not so CHEAP to be Diksa guru.
 
Madhya 8.83 Talks Between Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Ramananda Raya
The purport in presenting this verse necessitates explaining the comparative positions of the transcendental mellows known as santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya. All these rasas, or mellows, are situated on the transcendental platform. Pure devotees take shelter of one of them and thus progress in spiritual life. Actually one can take shelter of such spiritual mellows only when one is completely uncontaminated by material attachment. When one is completely free from material attachment, the feelings of the transcendental mellows are awakened in the heart of the devotee. That is svarupa-siddhi, the perfection of one’s eternal relationship with the Supreme Lord. Svarupa-siddhi, the eternal relationship with the Supreme Lord, may be situated in one of the transcendental mellows.
 
Note: When Krsna is TRANSFERRED FROM Pure devotees HEART to another Pure devotee then there is DIKSA. Divya jnana revealtion of ones CONSTITUTIONAL positon Svarupa is UNDERSTOOD. This may take many many many births -- NOT so cheap.
SB 10.2.18 P Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb
As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was transferred from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by diksa, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. Unless one is initiated by the right person, who always carries within his heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the power to carry the Supreme Godhead within the core of one’s own heart.
 
NoI 5
A madhyama-adhikari has received spiritual initiation from the spiritual master and has been fully engaged by him in the transcendental loving service of the Lord.
 
Antya 4.192 T Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri
diksa-kale bhakta kare atma-samarpana
sei-kale krsna tare kare atma-sama
TRANSLATION
“At the time of initiation, when a devotee fully surrenders unto the service of the Lord, Krsna accepts him to be as good as Himself.
TEXT 193
sei deha kare tara cid-ananda-maya
aprakrta-dehe tanra carana bhajaya
TRANSLATION
“When the devotee’s body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the devotee, in that transcendental body, renders service to the lotus feet of the Lord.
TEXT 194
martyo yada tyakta-samasta-karma
niveditatma vicikirsito me
tadamrtatvam pratipadyamano
mayatma-bhuyaya ca kalpate vai
TRANSLATION
” ‘The living entity who is subjected to birth and death, when he gives up all material activities dedicating his life to Me for executing My order, and thus acts according to My direction, at that time he reaches the platform of immortality, and becomes fit to enjoy the spiritual bliss of exchange of loving mellows with Me.’
PURPORT
This is a quotation from Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.29.34). At the time of initiation, a devotee gives up all his material conceptions. Therefore, being in touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is situated on the transcendental platform. Thus having attained knowledge and the spiritual platform, he always engages in the service of the spiritual body of Krsna. When one is freed from material connections in this way, his body immediately becomes spiritual, and Krsna accepts His service. However, Krsna does not accept anything from a person with a material conception of life. When a devotee no longer has any desire for material sense gratification, in his spiritual identity he engages in the service of the Lord, for his dormant spiritual consciousness awakens. This awakening of spiritual consciousness makes his body spiritual, and thus he becomes fit to render service to the Lord. Karmis may consider the body of a devotee material, but factually it is not, for a devotee has no conception of material enjoyment. If one thinks that the body of a pure devotee is material, he is an offender, for that is a vaisnava-aparadha. In this connection one should consult Srila Sanatana Gosvami’s Brhad-bhagavatamrta (1.3.45 and 2.3.139).
 
Note: It is SUCCESSION MEANS to SUCCEED:
SB 3.29.17 P Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila
In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. Acaryopasanam: one should worship an acarya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. The spiritual master must be in the disciplic succession from Krsna. The predecessors of the spiritual master are his spiritual master, his grand spiritual master, his great-grand spiritual master and so on, who form the disciplic succession of acaryas.
 
NOTE: It is ONLY ACARYA that can give DIKSA because even in NOD this is stated REGARDING ACCEPTING INITIATION from the spiritual master it refers to SB 11.17.27 which is ACARYA.
Nectar of Devotion 7 -- Evidence Regarding Devotional Principles
REGARDING ACCEPTING INITIATION from the spiritual master, in the Eleventh Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Seventeenth Chapter, verse 27, it is stated by Lord Krsna, “My dear Uddhava, the spiritual master must be accepted not only as My representative, but as My very self. He must never be considered on the same level with an ordinary human being. One should never be envious of the spiritual master, as one may be envious of an ordinary man. The spiritual master should always be seen as the representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and by serving the spiritual master one is able to serve all the demigods.”
 
Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.7.15 Purport -- Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati:
“By the mercy of the spiritual master one is benedicted by the mercy of Krsna. Without the grace of the spiritual master, one cannot make any advancement.” A disciple should never be a hypocrite or be unfaithful to his spiritual master. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.17.27), THE SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ALSO CALLED ACARYA. Acaryam mam vijaniyan: the Supreme Personality of Godhead says that one should respect the spiritual master, accepting him as the Lord Himself. Navamanyeta karhicit: one should not disrespect the acarya at any time. Na martya-buddhyasuyeta: one should never think the acarya an ordinary person. Familiarity sometimes breeds contempt, but one should be very careful in one’s dealings with the acarya. Agadha-dhisanam dvijam: the acarya is a perfect brahmana and has unlimited intelligence in guiding the activities of his disciple.
 
Note:Divya means Transcendental so HOW can a person who is NOT on Transcendental Knowledge platform give Transcendental Knowledge (Krsna) to another?
Even a Madhyama Adhikari is MIDWAY. Only Uttama Adhikari is Transcendental.
‘uttama-adhikari’ sei taraye samsara(Cc. Madhya 22.65)
Uttama Adhikari delivers by definition.
When Krsna is TRANSFERRED to your HEART from Srila Prabhupada this is DIKSA your sinful activities are VANQUISHED because you SEE Krsna and YOUR relationship (Svarupa) is established with Krsna.
 
Note: ONE INITIATOR Srila Prabhupda.There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, but the initiator spiritual master is one.
KB 80 The Meeting of Lord Krsna with Sudama Brahmana
Our next spiritual master is he who initiates us into transcendental knowledge, and he is to be worshiped as much as I am. The spiritual master may be more than one. The spiritual master who instructs the disciples about spiritual matters is called siksa-guru, and the spiritual master who initiates the disciple is called diksa-guru. Both of them are My representatives. There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, but the initiator spiritual master is one.
 
75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa:
The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am in the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.
 
Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12/3/1968
I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and all the members of the Society, they’re supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually.
 
 
Furthermore, here is my reply to Dusyanta Dasa which shows clearly that VAPU is NOT necessary and since Rocana Prabhu is Vapuvadi ALSO this will point his ERROR in understanding that VAPU (Physical form) of Srila Prabhupada is NOT necessary to TRANSMIT Diksa (DIVYA JNANA):
 
Duysanta dasa: The ritviks pretend to have a Diksa relationship with Srila Prabhupada after He has disappeared where as Srila Prabhupada has instructed to serve His vani after he has disappeared, its an eternal constant. So if you did not serve Srila Prabhupada’s vapuh how can you have a Diksa relationship????Diksa is a personal relationship with a Diksa Guru not with a Book.
 
Mahesh: This is another concoction from your Vapuvadi camp. WHERE does Srila Prabhupada say in his books that VAPU (physical form) is requirement for TRANSMISSION of Divya Jnana(Diksa)? Go on prove it Prabhu – we want evidence from Srila Prabhupada’s books ONLY.
 
SB 2.9.8 P Answers by Citing the Lord’ s Version
The potency of transcendental sound is never minimized because the vibrator is apparently absent.
Note:In any case what the Vapuvadi camp got was FORMALITY INITIATION which Srila Prabhupada states is “That is not very important thing”. But the Vapuvadi camp want to make it that THIS is the main thing.
761016iv.cha Conversations
Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) …knowledge. INITIATION IS FORMALITY. JUST LIKE YOU GO TO A SCHOOL FOR KNOWLEDGE, AND ADMISSION IS FORMALITY. THAT IS NOT VERY IMPORTANT THING.
 
SB 4.8.54 P Dhruva Maharaja Leaves Home for the Forest
Srimad Viraraghava Acarya, an acarya in the disciplic succession of the Ramanuja-sampradaya, has remarked in his commentary that candalas, or conditioned souls who are born in lower than sudra families, can also be initiated according to circumstances. THE FORMALITIES MAY BE SLIGHTLY CHANGED HERE AND THERE TO MAKE THEM VAISNAVAS.
 
Note: another thing is this FORMALITY INITIATION (1st and 2nd initiation) was conducted by representatives in many cases. So Srila Prabhupada was NOT EVEN at each and every place for fire sacrifice and name giving. Not only that BUT even the Gayatri Mantra was given in Tape and the instruction was given t o Temple Presidents.
 
Duysanta dasa: The relationship with Lord Krsna in His Bhagavad-Gita form is Shiksa Guru not Diksa Guru. So after Srila Prabhupada disappeared He is only available in His Vani form , His Book form as Shiksa Guru.You dont have a Diksa Guru relationship after the disappearance.
 
Mahesh: So now YOU Vapuvadi camp must hunt for another Diksa guru according to your OWN statement Srila Prabhupada disappeared: “So after Srila Prabhupada disappeared He is only available in His Vani form , His Book form as Shiksa Guru.You dont have a Diksa Guru relationship after the disappearance.” These Vapuvadis have ZERO level of understanding on DIKSA.
 
Duysanta dasa: All you all did was to quote what the PROCESS of Diksa is-no problem. But what about your Diksa relationship serving Vapuh. When you serve Vani its Shiksa relationship. You have mixed up the types of relationships with the different Gurus when they are in their vapuh and when they are in their Vani.
Where does it say Shiksa Gurus dont take sins?
What is the point in being so judgemental and agressive ,how is that a Vaisnava quality or are you just conditioned soul yourselves?Try to be more cool, better to have a cool head.
 
Mahesh: That is your concocted opinion from Vapuvadi camp. You have to prove that Srila Prabhupada’s physically presence( Vapu) is required to give Diksa. Prove it from Srila Prabhupada’s books.
 
Adi 1.99 The Spiritual Masters
One of the bhagavatas is the great scripture Srimad-Bhagavatam, and the other is the pure devotee absorbed in the mellows of loving devotion.
 
Adi 1.100 The Spiritual Masters
Through the actions of THESE TWO BHAGAVATAS THE LORD INSTILLS THE MELLOWS OF TRANSCENDENTAL LOVING SERVICE INTO THE HEART OF A LIVING BEING, and thus the Lord, in the heart of His devotee, comes under the control of the devotee’s love.
Note:Does it say VAPU is the requirement – NO! Vapuvadis have CONCOCTED you need VAPU for transmission of DIKSA
 
SB 1.7.22 P The Son of Drona Punished
The spiritual master, BY HIS WORDS, CAN PENETRATE INTO THE HEART OF THE SUFFERING PERSON AND INJECT KNOWLEDGE TRANSCENDENTAL, which alone can extinguish the fire of material existence.
 
Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.
 
690113LE.LA Lectures
Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na… Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man’s body, this is denied in the sastras. SO ALTHOUGH A PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT PRESENT, THE VIBRATION SHOULD BE ACCEPTED AS THE PRESENCE OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, VIBRATION. WHAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, THAT IS LIVING.
 
Note: It is FACTUALLY Srila Prabhupada who CONSTANTLY INSTRUCTS us through his books , tapes, cds. “becomes his initiating spiritual master later on.” indicates the position of Srila Prabhupada as the INITIATOR.
 
Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
Generally a spiritual master who CONSTANTLY INSTRUCTS a disciple in spiritual science becomes his initiating spiritual master later on.
 
Note: Why the Vapuvadis can NOT grasp that there is no requirement for Srila Prabhupada’s physical presence to transmit diksa is because they are in mode of IGNORANCE(TAMO GUNA):
 
740615rc.par Conversations
Yogesvara: “Is there some, any qualities, in the sense that some people have more receptivity towards the divine than other people?”
Prabhupada: Yes. That I explained, sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna. Those who are in sattva-guna, they can understand easily. Those who are in rajo-guna, they have got difficulty. AND THOSE WHO ARE IN TAMO-GUNA, THEY CANNOT.
 
72-12-14. Letter: Tusta Krsna
Next you ask if I am present in my picture and form? Yes. In form as well as in teachings. To carry out the teachings of guru is more important than to worship the form, but none of them should be neglected. Form is called vapu and teachings is called vani. Both should be worshiped. Vani is MORE important than vapu.
 
 
 
EVEN A SLIGHT COMMON-SENSE CAN TELL YOU THAT (DIKSA) DIVYA (TRANSCENDENTAL) JNANA CAN ONLY COME FROM TRANSCENDENTAL PERSON. Kanistha is NOT on TRANSCENDENTAL platform. Madhyama is MIDWAY and Uttama Adhikari is TRANSCENDENTAL BY DEFINITION:
 
661121BG.NY Lectures
And uttamam. Uttamam means “which is transcendental.” Ut means “trans-,” and tama means “darkness.” So uttama means “the knowledge which is beyond this material darkness.” This material world is called darkness, and when the knowledge surpasses this material world, material knowledge, that is really called uttama.
 
760420BG.MEL Lectures
Pavitram idam uttamam. Uttamam. Ut mean udgata, transcendental, and tama means this material world, darkness.
 
“We request you to chant HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAMA HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA HARE HARE, and your life will be sublime.”